Sid: I have on the telephone Dr. Debbie Rich, and Debbie went through such a devastating marriage. She got married at a young age 18 and this man physically abused her; emotionally abused her, cheated on her. She almost lost her life but she did everything possible to keep the marriage together. Finally God gave her a release; but at one of the worst parts when she was really losing it because of the abuse. This was back in 1984 you had a visitation; tell me about that Debbie.
Debbie: Yes, kneeling beside my bed I began to cry out to the Lord and say “Lord, I can’t even go on I have 3 children to raise, I know that I should be living in more victory than this but Lord the abuse is so devastating and I don’t know what to do any longer; I need you to be so real to me; I need You help.” And as I began to weep and to repent even at the suicidal thoughts that I’d been tempted with I was just calling out to Him. And the next thing I knew I literally saw myself leaving my body and I thought “What is happening?” And just in a moment quicker than I can even say moment I was before the Lord. I knew that I was in Heaven but I wasn’t looking at the city I was not looking at anything but looking into the face of Jesus Christ. And even as I get ready to say it now it’s difficult for me especially on the radio because I’m overcome when I go to tell it. But I was looking into the most liquid eyes of love that I don’t have words to describe that saw right through me. And I knew that I was looking in eyes that had been watching everything that I had been enduring. And as quickly as I could think anything that I wanted to ask Him; before I could say it the answer was back in my heart before I could see Him talk or move…
Sid: You know I’ve talked to many people that have had visitations to heaven and they way the same thing. That you communicate spirit to spirit in heaven not the way we do on earth.
Debbie: Exactly, exactly and the other things that I thought that I would have always asked were no longer important; they didn’t even come to me. The only thing that He was communicating to me was “How much He loved me; how much He had my life in the palm of His hand; that I had a call that He was going to use me to go all over the world that everything that He had shown me as a child was still going to come to past. Not to lose hope and that I would be amazed how He would fulfill it.” But in the middle of all of that it wasn’t even the call that was important it was how much He loved me. And I knew that when He loved me like that I could go on without asking anything I could just go on because I had a Lord who was a Lover of my soul. Who knew all things before the beginning to after the end.
Sid: But you had read this in the Bible you knew all of these things, but it obviously made quite a difference when you experienced what you knew.
Debbie: Oh, it made all the difference; I remember just looking at Him and thinking I just want to spend eternity looking at Him and that nothing else in my life mattered. It was a revelation far beyond your mental ascent; the Lord does have the hairs on our head numbered and He is our everything. All of a sudden I was experiencing that He’s my everything. And I saw myself go back into my body still kneeling by the bed and I was so affected there was so much glory on my face that when my husband got home from work that day I had made up my mind that I wasn’t going to tell him. I thought that it would open me up to more abuse and him laughing at me but when he walked in the door on his lunch break he said “What has happened to you?” And I started to tell him and I started weeping and I saw tears in his eyes and he asked me did he say anything about me? And I had to honestly say neither one of us talked about you or our relationship. He just showed me how much He loves me and I told my pastor that night; he had me share it with the congregation and we had people born again in our little Pentecostal church in Nebraska that night. And people in our small town where we were living saved when they heard about it but when that initial public testimony about it I never told all of these years until now. I believe I shared it with some of the Bible school students there in Tampa one night it came up unexpectedly but I never have until now.
Sid: Let me ask you a question because everything that I understand about forgiveness in the Bible is that is something that will just clog you up in your relationship with God and actually harm you physically in this life. And many people feel stop you from being able to go to heaven because Jesus said “I’ll forgive you with the same degree you forgive other people.” And if you’re not completely forgiven you obviously can’t go to heaven. How do you handle that worship leader that had an affair with your husband and then eventually married him?
Debbie: Yes, I forgave her a long time ago and of course the Lord enables you to do that with His grace. When you make the decision to do what the Bible says to do whether the feelings are there or not then His grace comes upon the scene and they come later. But the day came when the Holy Spirit spoke to me to go out and tell her that I had forgiven her. And so I went to her home and he was not home, my ex-husband and her husband at the time. And I grabbed her and held her and said “You need to go on in the Lord.” And she said “Oh, it’s too late for me Debbie, I’m proud of you and how you’ve gone on in Him.” But she said “That there’s too much that’s happened and it’s too late.” And I said “It’s not too late for the blood of Jesus; whether you’re the one that’s been abused and cheated on or your the one who cheated on someone it’s the same blood that will restore either one and the same God.” And I held her and told her I forgave her and that I wanted the best for her. And you know the day came because she lived through so much of the same thing that she and him divorced and I found out that she went on to Bible School and that she is doing missions work today. And I am truly so happy for her; and you’re absolutely right the Bible does say that with the degree that we will release others that the Lord Jesus will release us. And it was much more difficult for me to forgive myself for being stupid for marrying him for overriding the voice of Holy Spirit.
Sid: Did you early on did you blame yourself; did you think that you were just a no good person and that’s why you’re being abused or did you realize that it was strictly him and that he had a problem.
Debbie: I think that it was half and half and I knew that it was his problem but after awhile that you have been degraded I think that after awhile that you think “Well, I must be attracting that to myself and I must not have enough faith and this and that.” And the Lord spoke to me about that and said “Debbie, you must forgive yourself just like you’ve forgiven others; like you forgiven him, and you’ve forgiven the worship leader who is your friend.” You have to forgive yourself, it’s pride not to forgive yourself.
Sid: What does that entail how do you forgive yourself?
Debbie: Well, I said “Lord, I’ve always been hard on my self and an upbringing that was that way; Lord help the reality to reach me how much You have forgiven me so that I can forgive myself.” And that same Holy Spirit that was healing me up from the abuse flooded me again with another douse of His joy and His goodness and His reality. And I was able to forgive myself and say “Let’s put the past behind us at last and let’s walk in what God has for us for the future.” And I’ve done that ever since.
Sid: I want to talk about some miracles, tell me about a man from Washington by the name of Jeff Culver.
Debbie: Oh, yes it’s an awesome, awesome thing to watch happen. This man had been in a construction accident as a young man. He was still in his 20’s he had an 18 month old baby that he never picked up because he never had the strength to after the accident. He had fallen on cement and had broken his back and neck in several places and was living on 100’s of dollars of pain medication. And I would see him leave my meeting and people would have to help him out he’d come back in 20 minutes later. And people had told me that he has to walk out of the meeting and vomit from the pain it was so excruciating. He came to every meeting that week, morning and night, morning and night and he had to come over on a ferry from an island from of the state of Washington. So he put out effort to touch the hem of the garment of Jesus. And Friday night; I had prayed for him especially Friday morning; I had taught on healing all week in those morning services but he was still walking like he was so I didn’t see that we had seen the manifestation of that healing. But Friday night he was walking to take his seat into the meeting when I was praying up front. Some of us were gathered praying and the glory was already strong before the service began. And we saw him fall over it’s like he walked into a glory cloud and he fell over on his face on the floor and laid their all night without moving. The next day I was staying with some people and I was packing to leave when half of that little church came running in that house screaming and hollering; I couldn’t even understand them at first. And then I heard them yelling “Guess who is leaping and running all over the streets of Friday- Harbor Washington with his young boy on his back, on his shoulders jumping up and down and saying I am totally healed. That young man went home and picked up an ax and chopped wood; he had not been able to do that for almost 2 years. Went on to Bible school and is pasturing in one of the Alaskan Villages today; it was an awesome miracle.
Sid: I’m reminded of the young girl that told that she would go all over the world and preach the gospel and then found herself in a marriage where her husband was mentally and physically abusing her; three small children. No hope whatsoever and today you’re living what looked impossible. Mishpochah God is not a respecter of persons what he did for Debbie He’ll do for you.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth