Sid: I’ve been trying to yield to the Spirit of God this week demonstrating what should happen in a One New Man Congregation. Yes it’s okay to have an agenda but it’s more okay to please God.
I was talking about Kathryn Kuhlman yesterday and if I learned one thing from Kathryn Kuhlman it was like she would say a statement like “Please don’t grieve the Holy Spirit He’s all that I have.” And those that never had the privilege of being in a Kathryn Kuhlman service with all of the great miracle ministries around today that I have seen I don’t know anyone that moves in the power that she moved in. But I tell you I have some encouragement. Remember Anna Roundtree that I interviewed that’s been to heaven a couple of hundred times and she saw the angels in training, in training to assist believers that will be going into the highways and byways and walking in that same miracle power that Jesus walked in. The same miracle power that Paul walked in, the same miracle power that Kathryn Kuhlman walked in but it won’t just be a Paul, it won’t just be a Kathryn Kuhlman, it wouldn’t just be a Benny Hinn. Thousands she saw these angels in training and she said that God told her that there would be assigned to each believer that is seeking intimacy with God right now two angels. And your angels are in training right now and you’re in training right now. You’ve been wondering what’s been going on in your life you’re in training right now and they’re in training and real soon you’re going to have 2 friends 2 angels that will accompany you. And you know it’s really a phenomenal thing I see lots of healings when I go to congregations when I speak but percentage wise I see more miracles outside of the church than in the church. Well you say “I don’t see them.” Well how many people are you praying for I mean I’m almost amazed when I pray for someone in the highways and byways so to speak in the restaurants or in the shopping malls if they’re not healed I totally expect it. So I’m kind of walking a little bit not to any degree compared to what’s coming. I’m walking in this realm and I see it. Now what is going to happen when in every city 100’s of people are walking with their 2 angels into the mall? I mean when Kathryn Kuhlman and Benny Hinn and the news investigative shows really make mockery out of these things when they lay hands on people and someone is slain in the Spirit they fall over because you can’t stand in the presence of God. And yes I understand that a lot of people cooperate and I understand a lot of people “Oh I don’t want to be the only one that doesn’t fall down.” But I’m not talking about that nonsense that psychological nonsense I’m talking about the reality when the Spirit of God really comes on someone you cannot stand and if you can’t stand I suggest you fall you know what I mean. But I can picture in the shopping mall you reach your hand out to pray for that person with a crutch that’s got a cast on their foot and not only do they fall over, and no catcher I might add (Laughing). It reminds me of Amie Simple McPherson she started those of the Four Square denomination and she had a great miracle ministry and she refused to have catchers. She said you know why if God’s putting you on your back you’re not going to hurt yourself but if it’s not God you deserve to hurt yourself. But that was before the million dollar lawsuit. So I understand why we have catchers today. But I can picture going into the shopping mall now no one is going to fall to cooperate in a shopping mall especially non believers and if they fall that’s God. But I’m going to tell you what’s going to happen you’re going to reach your hand out and that person that’s got that broken leg and their going to fall over backwards and probably you’ll hear a crack the cast is going to break. And if they’re going to start walking and then they’ll say “It’s healed.” But when they go over I’m envisioning it being like bowling pins, I’m envisioning you getting a strike. (Laughing) I’m envisioning all 10 people around you all going over in the Spirit in a shopping mall. Now if that doesn’t demand a platform I don’t know what does and you’ll reach more people with the gospel with that one chance encounter in the shopping mall than in your church has reached in the last 10 years.
Do you understand? Why? I believe God’s in a hurry have you noticed time is compressing, it’s like where did last year go? Have you asked that of yourself? Where did it go? I just blinked my eyes and 2002 disappeared. I’ll tell you where it went time is supernaturally being compressed. Look what’s going on in the world. Look what’s going on wars and rumors of wars. I mean our president doesn’t know which front to go work on right now because there’s so many potential countries coming up with atomic warfare it’s… I wouldn’t want his job for anything in the world. By the way, if you’re not praying for him daily shame on you start putting President Bush on your prayer list daily and pray that he not be a man pleaser but be a God pleaser. The potential is there but he needs your help in prayer.
So I believe that these angels when they’re released we’re going to see such miraculous things happening God is going to do a quick work because it’s God’s mercy before judgment and judgment is coming and it’s coming quickly. And I want you I want to be, I want those 2 angels assigned to me and I want those 2 angels assigned to you and let’s take our cities for the Messiah.
So anyway what was I talking about do you remember I’m talking to Bob and Janie. I told you what I was doing I’m yielding to the Spirit of the Living God. But Joyce did the TV show with Kathryn Kuhlman and I did the television show with Kathryn Kuhlman and I remember I was a member of an organization called “The Hebrew Christian Alliance.” There were oh maybe 15 of us or so maybe even less in the active group. Sometimes a few more, sometimes a few less and one day the Vice President of the organization I was the President. His name was Paul Lieberman and Paul said “I got a problem Sid my wife won’t go to a Gentile church his wife wasn’t saved.” And she said “Maybe someday I might believe like you Paul but I’m never going into a Gentile church I can’t take it.”
So Paul being the mover and shaker that he is came to me and he said “Sid we need a Messianic Jewish Congregation.” I had just gotten set free from traditional Judism I’d just gotten set free by Jesus. I knew that God was real, I knew that I was going to heaven I knew that I could pray and He’d answer my prayers. I had my marriage restored, my mind restored, everything about me restored and he wants me to now go back to that? I said “Paul you’re nuts but I believe in a democracy we’ll just… we had a picnic and so we said “Let’s have a vote if you want to have a Messianic Jewish Service next Friday night we’ll have 1 if we like it we’ll have 2 then all in favor say I.” And I was shocked the majority said “It’s a good idea so we had to do it.”
So I remember I went to my dad and I said “Dad how do I run a Shabbat Service?” And he kicked me out of the house he thought I was mocking him. (Laughing) he really, he literally did. So I got a hold of a prayer book and we had our first service and you know what it was pretty good. Do you know what made it good to me I’m an evangelist I want to see souls Jewish people got saved so we had another service. And more Jewish people were getting saved. It was a wave of the Holy Spirit Jewish people were coming into the Lord and there was such life and there was such vitality and I didn’t know anything I was 1 year old in the Lord. And Paul and he didn’t know anything more than I knew he was a little younger than I was I think. But that congregation is in existence today and I’ll tell you we had a move of the Holy Spirit where we knew nothing but Jesus and Him crucified and that He’s real and that He’s a God of miracles and that we were grateful. And we had a zeal you know we had something back then yes it was a legitimate move of God’s Spirit but we had something back then that was like it was childlike faith and then we got very professional we hired a Rabbi and we got bigger and bigger but you know what fewer and fewer Jewish people started coming to the Lord the more organized we got. And then I got kind of disinterested but that’s the story of how Beth Messiah Congregation in Rockville, Maryland got started which is still in existence today. But I’m so grateful for that congregation and I’ll tell you why. As a result of the congregation my wife came to become a believer in Jesus. I don’t know any other way that she would have been a believer. You see what we would do was we would present from the scripture and we had a Rabbi at that time his name was Manny Brotman and he knew the Old Covenant the way most Christians know the New Covenant and the truth of the matter is that there’s nothing new in the New Covenant is in the Old Covenant in a hidden form. And so he would Manny would at every service he would go line upon line in the scripture and he would show how the entire history of the Jewish people was written before it happened. And my wife saw these and then he would show how everything about Jesus is in the Jewish scriptures. Every aspect of His life and she came to a point where she said “Remember that spark when she was a little child and walked down the altar in the Southern Baptist Church?” It says “Train up a child in the ways of the Lord and when they’re old they’ll not depart.” I’ll tell you what she had that original commitment she made to the Lord as a child that was stolen from her when she had some flesh to the bones, when she saw the prophecies about Israel and the Jewish people this was her quote she said “I had to believe.” She literally said “I had to believe.” Now we know we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual principalities and powers of darkness but I tell you there is nothing like the word of God and the Spirit of God and the miracles of God to cause anyone anywhere to become red hot for the Messiah. Well we had a move of God’s Spirit back then but I tell you what we’re going to have a move of God’s Spirit I believe it’s started right now.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: My guest by long distance telephone is Dr. Michael Brown speaking to him at his school in Pensacola, Florida. He’s President of the Fire School of Ministry and the Pensacola Branch will shortly move to Charlotte, North Carolina. They also have a campus in New York. I’m interviewing him on his newest book “Revolution in the Church” subtitle “Challenging the Religious System With a Call for Radical Change.” And on yesterday’s broadcast I said “Mike the whole book I believe where the corruption really started has to do with Chapter 10.” And Chapter 10’s title is “Have you read the Epistle of Jacob lately?” And explain to those that who not listening yesterday about the Epistle of Jacob.
Michael: Well it’s commonly known as the Epistle of James in English. If you read the Greek the Greek is Yacov which is Jacob. If you talk to people from different parts of the world most of them would tell you “Oh yeah it’s something very close to Jacob.” And somehow even before King James when this when the Greek was translated into English it came out as James which is a wrong form its basically corrupt form really unrelated to Jacob ultimately.
Sid: What it does that and many more things it puts a wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles, or in this case Jews and Christians which is actually Jesus said “I came to break down that wall and it really does separate these 2 people groups. But equally as important is these biblical Jewish concepts have somehow been lost. And on yesterday’s broadcast you were talking about the concept of the Kingdom of God is at hand explain.
Michael: Let’s look at it like this if Jesus came into the world to establish a lovely new home and garden religion called Christianity and we put on our Sunday best and we go to our lovely service and go home and have a nice life and that was the intention of God and now we have to spread his lovely faith to the whole world. Well let God be God we’ll do it but that’s not what we find in the scriptures. The prophets were expecting a Messianic age and the final culmination of that age will be when Jesus returns and drives out all the wicked destroys the wicked, establishes the Kingdom of God fully on the earth. But right now is the transition time. Where the Kingdom broke in the King was at hand, the Messianic era began when Jesus the Messiah began His ministry and then when He died and rose from the dead at that point on according to scripture we’ve been living in the last days even in the last hour as it says in 1st John the 2nd chapter. And now Jesus has enlisted all of us into his Messianic movement to go and change the world. To drive back the forces of darkness, to set the captives free, to leave everything and join His holy cause. In other words he’s talking about a revolution.
Sid: But why do we have a gospel that says repent of your sins, believe in Jesus and you will be saved as opposed to saying “Making Him Lord.” I mean as I read the New Testament and think for myself a gospel without making Him Lord is only a half a gospel.
Michael: Well I’m even glad that you mentioned the repentance part because sometimes we just preach “Call out to Jesus..”
Sid: You say this prayer. (Laughing)
Michael: …And save you and you’ll go to heaven. And thank God ultimately the greatest issue is forgiveness of sins and spending eternity with God but the bottom line is the great commission is to go and make disciples. And Jesus said “If anyone wants to come after me let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me.” And then the commission is “Go and make disciples of the nations and teach them observe everything you’ve heard from Me everything I’ve taught you now you go and teach.” And I’ve spent a whole chapter in “Revolution in the Church” dealing with the subject of what it means to be a disciple. It’s just being taught like or is this the cutting edge, what does scripture actually teach? And I go through some of the terms that we use like Christian we talked about it yesterday. It’s fine to use the term although it’s meaning has changed a lot through the years and basically let’s be realistic here it occurs only 3 times in the entire New Testament not 30, 300 just 3 times. It’s not the primary way that the followers of Jesus were identified and in this age here in America to say I’m a Christian what does that mean to most people?
Sid: Let me tell you what it means to Jewish people. I’m quoting your book in 2001:
Christian leaders form all different denominations wrote to Secretary of State Colin Powell and urged him not to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capitol at this time that’s what it means to Jewish people.
Michael: Let me take this a step further. Sid there are major national Evangelicals Leaders, editors of major Christian publications and heads of major ministry, I’m talking about fellow believers people that love Jesus I’m not talking about people who are just in church somewhere, I’m talking about true believers who love Jesus and believe in the authority of scripture. They have recently written towards the end of 2002 they wrote to President Bush urging to have a more “Even-Handed Policy” on the Israel thing and to much more side with the Palestinian and things and really the whole idea of taking sides the right or wrong they were basically saying “You can’t do that.” And I read the thing and was absolutely shocked by the names on it. And thankfully James Dobson wrote to the President and said “Don’t move an inch when you stand for Israel this is absolutely right.” And from a humanitarian point and from a biblical viewpoint….
Sid: Okay let’s forget Mike Brown’s spin let’s forget all of these Christian ministers spin. What’s God’s spin on that?
Michael: God’s spin is very simple and Sid I have been blown away by opportunities to witness to Jewish people based on what’s happening in the world today. They’ll say “Why the Jews, why are we hated around the world, why Jerusalem?” There is a worldwide satanic conspiracy to wipe out the Jewish people, to destroy the nation of Israel and to get Jerusalem out of Jewish hands. I don’t mean that our people are guiltless, I don’t mean that our people don’t need to repent…
Sid: By the way for those that don’t know both Mike and myself are Jewish believers in Jesus go ahead.
Michael: And nor am I saying for a moment that the nation of Israel is a perfect and Godly nation far from it but there’s one city in scripture that we are…that Jesus wept over and it’s recorded that He wept over. Luke 19 “He wept over Jerusalem.” It’s the one city that God calls us to pray for and give Him not rest until He establishes the praises of all the earth Psalm 122 and Isaiah 62. It’s the one city that it says in Zachariah 12 that “All nations will come against her. And it’s the one city that it says in Zachariah 14 that the Lord will touch base and that He’ll put feet there. Jesus will return to that city the Mount of Olives. And it’s the one place that Jesus said “You will not see me again” in Matthew 23 “You will not see Me again until you say “Baruch haba b’shem Adonai.” “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” which comes from Psalm 118 and those are the words of which they welcome back the Messianic King. In other words there must be a Jewish Jerusalem to welcome back the Messiah or He will not come and establish his Kingdom on the earth. The devil knows that when Jesus comes back and establishes His Kingdom on the earth it’s all over for the devil. And everything in his power is devoted to wiping out the Jewish people having a world conspiracy that hates Israel. Before the Jews were in the land before the Jews were guilty of these so called atrocities against the Palestinian’s whom we love and pray for and reach out to but before any of this the Jews were hated just the same. Worldwide anti-Semitism now is on the same level that it was immediately before the holocaust. Why it makes no sense? Of course it makes no sense it’s diabolical, it’s irrational, it’s Satan’s plot. And one of the things that he has done is he has infiltrated the church not just with the horrible history of anti-Semitism and for those that aren’t familiar with it in this one chapter in this “Revolution in the Church” it is an absolute shocker. And Sid let me just ask you something this is your interview but let me ask you this. If I told you about a wonderful sensitive guy that loves Jesus powerful anointed, filled with the Spirit tremendous miracles everything the only little hitch is that he preached this little series of sermons a few years ago called “Kill the Blacks.” What would you think of that?
Sid: I wouldn’t want him in my church!
Michael: And you’d question his walk with God wouldn’t you.
Sid: I’ll tell you something I would give him zero, not only question his walk with God I would give him zero place in anything.
Michael: Well it in this Chapter in “Revolution in the Church” have you read the Epistle of Jacob lately I have quotes from Martin Luther and other great Church leaders that will curl people’s eyebrows that Nazi war criminal sitting in the Nazi war trials the Nuremberg tails some of them said “You shouldn’t be trying me you should be trying Martin Luther because we simply followed his counsel. How could this be from someone so mightily used by God that there could be such a terrific aberrations and anti-Semitic…
Sid: Listen the encyclopedia Judaica says, “Short of the ovens everything Martin Luther said was similar to what Hitler said in reference to the Jewish people.”
Michael: Hitler thought that Luther was a Genius and in fact some historians have called Luther the John the Baptist of Adolph Hitler. How could this be? What happened is the church embraced a false theology that said “The church has replaced Israel and that God is finished with the Jewish people.” And now embraces a theology that says modern Israel today is not part of God’s restoration that God has not brought the Jewish people back to land for His end time purposes. And once people think like that Sid the door is wide open for all kinds of other biblical doctrinal spiritual error.
Sid: Mike what we’re talking about is so foundational to understand the rest of your book that I’m almost sorry that you waited till chapter 10 to talk about it. I’ve got to find out what you mean by Chapter 4 “The Body is not an audience and the preacher is not a performer.”
Michael: Well Chapter 4 follows on Chapter 3 “The Church is Not a Building and the Family is not a house.” And Sid I would have very gladly put the 10th Chapter as the 2nd third or fourth chapter, but in all honesty I don’t believe a lot of readers would have gotten through the rest of it they would have misjudged it they would have thought “Oh here’s just another pro-Israel, oh here’s now just another Jewish roots guy.” Without understanding that this part of the larger problem how we have departed from a biblical foundation. When I say that “The Body is not an audience, the Preacher is not a performer.” I’m talking the true nature of the Body, I’m talking about the wrong notion of the clergy, laity decision. I’m talking about a wrong concept and here’s another translation error. The Greek word ekklesia means a congregation. It means assembled people, it means people called out if you go back to…
Sid: Oi we’re out of time!
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: Well my guest is red hot for the Messiah, when he was in the 2nd grade he heard the audible voice of God calling Him to teach God’s people. I mean at age 14! At age 14 I wasn’t even sure there was a God. I didn’t know my left hand from my right hand, what a wonderful start. And then when you were actually before 14 when you were 7 years of age you eye witnessed 3 miracles personally?
Don: Yes I did.
Sid: That is what a privilege I mean God was setting you up for what you’re doing today.
Don: Yes He was I have no doubt about that and from the time that I was 7 until today I’ve never doubted the ability of God to perform miracles.
Sid: But I bet you have wrestled with “Why don’t I see more, why isn’t every one healed that I pray for?” I know I wrestle with that.
Don: Yes I have wrestled with that greatly but you know I’m convinced that Jesus didn’t take stripes on His back so we could go on being sick; that it is His will to heal every single time.
Sid: Tell me about those 3 miracles you saw at 7 years of age; before 7 years of age actually.
Don: Well the first miracle that I witnessed was at age 4, and I write about this in chapter 2 of my book, is that my dad was it was critically about most fatally injured in a logging accident in northern California and I witnessed that miracles taking place. I can remember they called my mother and we were on our way to the hospital that I knelt on the backseat of the car and on my way to the hospital I could remember as if it was yesterday praying over and over. “God please don’t let my daddy die, please don’t let my daddy die.” And just a few weeks after his accident he walked out of that hospital on crutches and the doctors did not believe that he would ever leave the hospital. In fact they gave him no medical attention for a week because they thought that he was just going to die and when he didn’t die then they started to try to help him. And he’s 82 years old today and still pasturing a church.
Sid: Well it’s actually a little more supernatural than what you even said because according to the story I read an angel did something that had that angel not shown up your dad wouldn’t even to be helicoptered to a hospital.
Don: That’s right my Dad had cut a tree he was in the logging business at the time and he had cut a tree and it had gone over hit another tree and bounced back and pinned him to the ground across his midsection. And then the tree just for a few seconds bounced up into the air and an angel drug my dad from beneath the tree head first and when the tree came back down it rested flat against the ground. So the angel snatched him I guess is a better word than dragged him; it snatched him out from under that tree and so that he could be transported to the hospital and his life could be saved.
Sid: So in effect the tree was ready to fall a portion of it a second time directly would have hit him the second time which it really would have finished the job if something hadn’t pulled him out of that path that’s what you’re saying.
Don: Yes the tree came down and hit the ground and bounced and when it bounced the angel snatched him from beneath the tree and when it came back down it stayed flat on the ground.
Sid: That had to make…I mean was your dad a believer at the time?
Don: My dad was a believer at the time yes.
Sid: But imagine if that happened to you I mean an angel pulls you out of the path of a tree that just hit you and your in terrible pain and your dying and it bounces off the ground again and is ready to fall again on you directly on your head, and something pulls you out of the path! I mean your father must have had incredible faith!
Don: Yes my father has…my whole life my father’s had amazing amazing faith I’ve seen miracles transpired that my dad has prayed for and it’s just been over and over again through out my life he has he has incredible faith (Chuckling.)
Sid: Well speaking of incredible faith I have just heard someone with arthritis in the fingers if you will bend your fingers right now the pain is gone. In fact, the fingers are going back to normal the knuckle areas. And someone with a pain in their back if you’ll bend over right now you’ll see that pain is gone. And Don God’s told you that before you did this broadcast about someone that was listening to us.
Don: Yes He did I just felt like that there’s someone that’s listening to us today that you have basically been given a death sentence and God is saying to you today “Fight for life. You don’t have to take the sentence that has been passed upon you the word that has been spoken over you I cancel that right now in the name of Jesus; the word that has been spoken the assignment that the enemy has against you I take authority over it and I cancel that and I speak life to you; I declare and decree to you that you shall live and not die and declare the works of the Lord; so fight for life and believe for healing today.”
Sid: Tell me about one of the stories…and every one of them are amazing. Tell me about the Turnbull family.
Don: The Turnbull family attends our church in Houston, Texas and they had a baby born to them Andrew is his name. This was in I believe it was in 2000 let’s see Andrew’s 10 years old I believe so 2004 I believe that Andrew was born. And he had a typical scimitar syndrome that it affects 1 in a million babies. His heart was on the wrong side of his chest and he had severe complications. The doctors did not believe that he would live in fact they had the family to sign a do not resuscitate order and the church began to pray. A lot of people started praying and Andrew not only had some health issues he was born at 5 pounds 6 ounces and it just looked very bleak. On May the 20th the doctors had told them that he would not live and all of the sudden on May the 20th he just took a turn for the better and God completely healed Andrew. And the doctors were convinced that if Andrew lived that he would not have a normal life, but they still attend our church, Andrew’s 10 old, and if you met Andrew you would know that he hadn’t ever had a sick day in his life; he’s in sports, does not take any kind of medications, he’s a picture of health.
Sid: But wait a second if I’m understanding you right there’s one lung missing, the heart is in the wrong place it’s in the place where a missing lung was, did he have any surgery to correct this?
Don: No surgery.
Sid: How could that be?
Don: Well because of God that’s the only explanation that could be.
Sid: All right tell me about “The Audacious Prayer” tell me about that.
Don: There were a lot of people praying, but I remember when Andrew was at his worst we gathered, I think that there was another pastoral staff member there a lot of the family was there and we gathered in a prayer circle in the hallway and we prayed for Andrew. And we didn’t just… we didn’t just give it lip service we became earnest in our prayers and this is a matter of life and death for this family. And when we were finished praying I just knew that Andrew was going to be fine. I mean it was just… God didn’t say anything to me but in my Spirit I just knew that I knew that I knew that Andrew was going to be fine. And within hours his condition completely reversed itself and he was home within a couple of days of that prayer.
Sid: And if I understand you right 2 days before that he was given up for dead!
Don: Absolutely, absolutely the doctors 2 days before that the doctors were convincing the family to sign Do Not Resuscitate Orders and they were preparing for his death, the doctors were preparing for his death but God was preparing for his life.”
Sid: You know I love your brand new book “The Audacity of Prayer” the thing that makes this so unique is this is normal everyday people that have entered into the audacity of belief the boldness, the fearless faith. But you know something for you to be convinced of this you have to hear teaching from the word of God and that’s what Don Norton has done….
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: If I have ever met a man that is red hot for the Messiah I have him opposite me right now. I have him in the studio he’s name is David Piper from Tifton, Georgia. For 17 years a crack addict, 17 years how many years probation did they give you David?
David: Thirty-eight years.
Sid: What for?
David: Well because of all of the crimes I committed during this crack addiction; forgery against my grandma’s checking account, possession of cocaine with attempt to distribute, 12 felonies in the first degree with burglary it’s all related to the drug addiction.
Sid: And Mishpochah he went to a Benny Hinn meeting; Benny singled him out and you said this on yesterday’s broadcast David but I enjoy hearing it so much I’m going to ask you again. When Benny prayed for you what did he say and describe graphically what happened to you?
David: He pointed his finger at me and as a soldier marching towards me and he said “Father anoint him!” Just of course I can’t say it with the boldness he did that day but…
Sid: (Laughing)
David: But it felt as this liquid fire just went down my throat like a volcanic eruption inside of me exploded and from the inside out everything I could feel was being burned out of me. All of the drug addictions, even the memory of it, my system was being supernaturally clean out by God. And I went that service that morning a brand new creature.
Sid: And what about your brain I mean I have not been a drug addict praise God but doesn’t it do something to destroy your brain?
David: Yeah it destroys your memory and I guess the memory functions and all of those things the chemical imbalances that take place but God had totally restored everything. I mean I left there that morning with not even the memory of my past. I couldn’t even tell you what the drug taste like or smelled like now it’s totally gone every bit of it 100% of it gone.
Sid: Had you ever gone to things like AA and gotten any help from those things?
David: I had went for years been in almost every treatment center in Georgia that would take me.
Sid: You were in a mental hospital.
David: A mental hospital Southwestern Mental Hospital in Taylorsville, Georgia. I tried everything that man had for me and exhausted all of my efforts even the insurance companies would not carry me any more because you know my frequency to go back to these mental hospitals I could get no insurance for that. I had really come to the point where the state was having to pay for this stuff it was because I was broke and didn’t have any money and had exhausted everything. And when I went to Jesus He is the answer.
Sid: Now have you prayed for people that have had drug addiction of addictions of other kinds and they’ve been set free.
David: Oh there’s many testimonies.
Sid: I mean just like you though.
David: Just like me instantly just like me. God began to use me in a jail ministry in Tifton, Georgia and for 8 months I would go to the jail twice a week and I would watch as the same anointing that touched my life begin to touch the lives of these inmates and their family members would even call me on the phone at work and they would say things like “Who are you?” and I would be like “Well, who are you?” you know and they would say who are you my son or my daughter are different now well I mean they just got out of jail and now they’re different and something happened to them when you came and visited the,. And I began to tell them “Well it’s the presence of Jesus and we serve a God with a yoke of destroying anointing that destroyed the yoke completely.” And the mothers would cry with me over the phone and I ended up leading them to Jesus. So not only the inmates were being touched but even the families at home were getting saved.
Sid: We went out and had some Chinese food before the broadcast and I witness to everyone breathing but I notice that you do too. Why is it so important to tell people about Jesus? Why?
David: Because I believe…
Sid: Why do you believe this?
David: Because I believe the heart of God today is on the lost and it always has been He sent His Son to die for us at Calvary His Son Jesus. God did not create hell for people it was created for the devil and his angels and he wants us to wake up and grow up and start doing what we’re called to do. Tell the world about Jesus Christ.
Sid: Now you really blew me out of the water when you told me about a visitation you had recently in your house.
David: Oh just a couple of days ago I was… I walked into my apartment my wife had left and gone to Atlanta and I was there by myself and I went home to get ready for my sermon I was preaching it was Friday afternoon this past Friday. I went to get prepared for the sermon and out of the corner of my eye I noticed that there was someone in the room and I turned my head and for a split it seemed to be just a few seconds I saw an angel standing there with it appeared to have body parts in his hands. And I saw and instantly he disappeared and the Lord spoke to me and said He’s sending angels to the earth that have missing body parts for God’s people.
Sid: And you really believe that?
David: I really believe with everything within me I know I’m not crazy I saw that.
Sid: What is going to happen next? Okay we see people with body parts you’re talking about someone without a leg…
David: I believe that we’re going to see people come to the services who have had their legs amputated or arms amputated or missing eyeballs and all of a sudden in the middle of the services God’s going to supernaturally grow legs back, grow arms back, give eyeballs back to them. I believe that we’re already see new kidney’s come where there were no kidneys, we’re already seeing creative miracles but God’s about to expand that miracle working power in the church. Because when he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt the Bible declares clearly there was no tone feeble among them. And God has not changed. Hallelujah!
Sid: And just from the beginning the get-go after what was it 17 years of crack addiction you started seeing miracles? How fast?
David: Immediately. Listen God wants to take us and use us to minister to people who are going through what he just brought us through. What He’s looking for is to let…just begin to make ourself available as yielded instruments in His hands even wants to use us to minister healing for people that are going through what we just came through. You know there’s no…listen God can take someone and deliver them, heal them, save them today and use them tomorrow. Why? Because He’s God.
Sid: Consider yourself challenged you or I who have been believers for 15, 20 25, 30 years. David I was just last night at a service that you were at and someone… what they had a stroke, I talked to this man that his whole side was paralyzed.
David: His hearing doctors had snipped the nerve in his face during a surgery procedure and caused his face to go numb and he couldn’t feel his ear or his face. And I had a word of knowledge that someone in the service had had a nerve clipped behind their ear. And he raised his hand he came out and when I agreed in prayer with him immediately the feeling came back into his face. That tells me that God’s supernaturally grew that nerve back together.
Sid: How about blind people? Tell me one blind person.
David: Oh I was in Toccoa, Georgia in January at Faith Memorial Church Toccoa, Georgia Pastor Bob Westcott. A young land 25 years old came to the service names Leah she came to the service I gave an altar call she came down with all of the people and accepted Jesus as her Savior and right after the altar call I was trying to get the people who had just got saved to look at me because I wanted to tell them to read the Bible and pray and get in a good church and stay away from people that are in the wrong environment and different things and she would not look at me. And I said “Why would she not look at me?” And she said “She cannot see you.” And I said “Leah.” They turned her head towards me I said “The Jesus that just saved you is just as obligated to heal you.” I said “Not only is He your Savior He also is your healer.” And we began to pray for her and instantly God opened her eyes. She began to see everything I mean the whole place erupted in praise. My faith level went through the roof I got to tell you Sid that’s one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen. I held my fingers up and I said “How many finger do I got?” She looked and she counted them and she said “Two.” And I said follow me and I took off and she took off after me. The next day she came back to church that night and she told everybody that she had went to Walmart all by herself without her any assistance and walked all over the store and was able to look and read all of the prices at Walmart.
Sid: Could she have done that by herself…could she have gone by herself even?
David: Talking to the people who cared for her and knew her who picked her up said “It was impossible” they said that they knew that the girl could not see before.
Sid: What about cancer?
David: Cancers I’ve seen very…I’ve just documented healing after healing where people come dying with cancer being given a terminal death wish by doctors and bad reports and Jesus Himself has showed up and touched those people and cancers just disappear. They go back to the doctor get checked out and there’s no sign of cancer it’s totally gone.
Sid: Okay left field Israel what do you see going on in Israel?
David: I see great revivals coming to Israel. I believe God’s about to bring revival to Israel. I believe that Israel could be the very place. I believe I hear God telling me right now that “Israel will be the very place where creative miracles begin to happen. It’ll be one of the first places where you’ll see limbs grow back. I hear the Lord tell me He’s going to begin with His people like He always has and that revival will spread throughout the rest of the world.
Sid: Well I’m reminded the scripture says “The word of the Lord will go forth from Zion.”
David: Oh hallelujah! I feel the anointing in this room now Jesus!
Sid: (Laughing)
David: Praise God!
Sid: David by the way Mishpochah I feel the presence of God too. And in His presence all things are possible. I’ll tell you David I know that this week you’re going to and you flow in words of knowledge. Tell me a quick word of knowledge that you had and what’s happened.
David: As far as in my services?
Sid: Yeah anywhere.
David: Anywhere well recently the Lord gave me Words of knowledge in Toccoa, Georgia. It began to operate so clearly the same service that Leah that her eyes were opened I began to have a word of knowledge that I began to call out by the help of the Lord every sick person in that place I began calling out sickness. Somethings I never even heard of I had a hard time pronouncing them; they were coming to my head and I was calling them out and by the time I got though the church was almost standing at the front of the building and God began to heal everyone of them right there down the line. A lady with cataracts who was scheduled for surgery this is documented now complete miracle. The cataract disappeared off of her eyes and she began to read out of her Dakes Bible the little print without glasses. A little girl who had hole in her eardrum she testified that the hole she could not hear tightened up and then an explosion inside of her ear and immediately she began to hear everything. And then one lady came you got to hear this neck brace, arm all in a sling, could not hardly walk walking around. I mean just really in pain wrenched in pain and all of this had some accident. Immediately the power of God touched her leg the neck brace came off, the arm thing came off she began to run all over the church completely healed. We had a service that almost everyone there was healed.
Sid: David we’re out of time hold it….
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: Hello Sid Roth here with Art Thomas. Now Art this is kind of stretching it a little, you’re wife is sick what was wrong with your wife and what did your 2 year old… are you stretching it a little?
Art: (Laughing) No no and I care very deeply about accuracy in reports and so this was a crazy one. My wife was playing with my two boys one’s 3½ at the time and the other was 2, and my 3½ year old jumped up from the floor and with his head popped my wife right in the nose and we heard this really loud pop and blood starts pouring out of her nose and instantly we knew okay her nose is broken. And before we could either say anything or do anything my 2 year old JJ runs over and said “You okay Mommy?” Puts his hand on her nose and says “Mommy be healed in Jesus name.” And the bleeding stops the pain stopped and there is no evidence whatsoever of my wife having a broken nose.
Sid: I have a hunch that now what is your son’s name again?
Art: JJ, Jeremiah James.
Sid: Okay I have a hunch that Jeremiah James faith is sky high (Laughing).
Art: Yeah my boys see a lot of miracles happen even in our small group in our homes we have miracles happen about at least once a month it seems so we’ve had some amazing things that they’ve been able to witness. We just teach them to minister healing. You know one of them comes to us with a booboo and instead of “Hey can I kiss it?” It’s “Be healed in Jesus name how does that feel?” And they get healed pretty often. (Laughing)
Sid: Now you didn’t see anything happening really before 2009, now how many miracles would you say you’ve personally have observed?
Art: Yeah it’s got to be a rough estimate but roughly 3000 or more.
Sid: Could you picture if you had a church where each member saw 3000 miracles you wouldn’t have a building large enough to contain all of the people that would come. Now speaking of children, you were in Kenya speaking before 300 children what happened?
Art: Yeah this was on my very first trip to Africa in 2011. On our way back the man that I was staying with said “Hey I arranged a meeting at this school.” So I preached the gospel to these 300 kids that were probably 3rd through 5th grade in our type of schooling. And after preaching to them and telling them about Uganda and everything I saw I told them about these friends I had in Uganda who were kicked out of their Muslim families and became street children because they came to follow Jesus.” And I said “I can’t promise you that if you become a Christian everything will be wonderful but I can promise you that Jesus is worth it. And if you want to receive this Jesus I want you to stand up now,” and as far as I could tell all 300 of those kids stood up. And so they prayed through a prayer of salvation in their own language and we moved on. And I said “Now Jesus said ‘These signs will accompany those who believe.’ So how would you like to see what Jesus can do through you now that you believe?” And they were just you know on the edge of their seats “Yeah, yeah we want to see it.” And so I taught them about healing in about 5 minutes and after that I said “Now if you have eye problems, ear problems, pain in your body, sickness, disease.” And then I made the mistake of saying a bump, a scrape a bruise because every single kid in the room stood up.
Sid: Of course (Laughing).
Art: And then I was going to have those sitting pray for those standing and that was out of the question now. So I just said “Pair off 2 or 3 of you.” And taught them what to do put your hand where the problem is and say “Be healed in Jesus name and test it out.” And I got a little bit of video you know of these kids doing this and some of them were goofing off but it doesn’t say “These signs will accompany those that believe if they don’t goof off even” and you know. And after that I said I said “If you are healed if you can test it out and the pains gone the skins healed over you can see, you can hear or whatever it is if you’re healed I want you to sit down. If not stay standing because we’re going to minister again and about half of the room sat down. We did it a second time and about half of that group sat down and we did it a third time and everybody except 1 boy in the front row and when I watched the video I realized no one had prayed for him the 3rd time so it made sense. And I asked him “What’s your problem what happened to you?” And he said “It’s my eyes I can’t read so I laid hands on his eyes “Eyes open in Jesus name” opened up the Bible and he started reading. And so here was a room of 300 kids they’d only been saved for about 5 minutes and every single one of them ministered healing and was healed and we saw a 100% results.
Sid: No no Art you don’t understand when somebody gets saved they have to sit and learn for the next couple of years there’s no way that they can pray for the sick.
Art: (Laughing) Yeah that’s just a misconception that we held for so long and that was one of the things holding me back I kept thinking I had to have this or that added to my life before I could actually do something of value in the Kingdom. And I remember in Luke 9 Jesus sent out his 12 and then before the chapter even ends they’re arguing over who’s the greatest, they’re exclusive they told the guy not to minister in Jesus name. They were even murderess they wanted to call down fire on a village of Samaritan village that had rejected them. And you know I always thought well if I was Jesus at that point I would think twice about the caliber of people that I’m sending out in my name to represent me. But instead the very beginning of the next chapter Luke 10 he sends out 72 others. And then in the beginning of Luke 11 one of them even asked “Lord teach us to pray.” And so they weren’t even confident in their prayer lives yet, they had all of these character flaws and they were prideful and murderous and exclusive and yet Jesus was so interested in getting the commission accomplished. He just wanted people to go it was as if He was saying “Well work on your character along the way.” And I can testify to that that things have changed in my character faster while ministering to other people than if I had just sat around and waited to be perfect before I went out.
Sid: Well you know one of the things that I learned by watching from your video is I’m used to 1 quick prayer and go on to someone else. But I see most of your people they keep praying until they see results, now to me that was pretty unique there was a perseverance there that I haven’t seen before.
Art: Yeah in John 9 Jesus ministered to a blind man “What do you see?” The man said “I see people like trees walking around.” And Jesus didn’t pat him on the back and say “Yahoo partial healing” you know He…
Sid: (Laughing)
Art: You know He put the hands back on the man’s eyes and then his vision was fully restored. So I just tell people let’s go after this tenaciously like pit-bulls and just not expect someone to mystically randomly get healed throughout the week but let’s actually let Jesus see what He paid for now since now is the day of salvation.
Sid: Oh that reminds me of the story you talk about where someone a woman that was nearsighted tell me about that.
Art: Oh yeah again on my first trip in Uganda here I was in front of a church I had just taught them all to minister healing. I just wanted to demonstrate I just wanted them to see how it works. And I said “How many of you have eye problems?” And there was like 3 or 4 hands so just at random I picked this lady in the second row and brought her up and laid hands on her eyes and said “Eyes open in Jesus name.” And he opened up a Bible and any change?” And she said “No.” So I’ve learned it’s not magic words I don’t have to change it up I don’t have to find the right string of words to twist God’s arm so I just did the same thing over and over, eyes open in Jesus name, open the Bible “Any change, “No.” And this went on for about 15 minutes.
Sid: Yeah but I don’t know how you kept your audience.
Art: (Laughing) Well I didn’t.
Sid: (Laughing) Okay that answers that (Laughing).
Art: And at that moment when she left I realized I got to do something and so I turned to the congregation and said “Did Jesus pay for this woman to see?” And they all very…they waited (Laughing) even after it was translated and finally someone said “Yes.” And I said “Did He pay a very high price for this woman to see?” And they smiled and shook their heads “Yes.” And I said “Did it matter that I stand here and look like a fool in front of you speaking for Jesus to receive what He paid for?” And they just kind of smiled and laughed and I turned back to the woman “Eyes open in Jesus name any change?” “No.” Another 5 minutes goes by and suddenly she could read the large print headings at the top of the page and it was suddenly a slight relief because I want to see 100% but at least something was happening. “You see it’s starting to work I’m going to continue to ministering to her until we see 100% but you now see how this works you keep going for it so if you need healing come up to the front.” We had 10 people line up the rest of the congregation was the prayer team they came up and ministered to them. And I turned back to that woman put my hands on her eyes and “Eyes open in Jesus name” opened the Bible and she was completely healed. So she went to sit down and I said “Where are you going?” “To sit down.” And I said “No, no, no you come over here and pray for someone.” And so she sheepishly came over and prayed for the one man who no one was ministering to yet. And it just so happens it was an elderly man who was completely blind and out of that line of 10 people she was the first one healed that she was praying for and I didn’t pray for any of them but every single one of the was healed.
Sid: Now you teach something that I think is worth people listening to this interview just this one thing I’m going to have you talk about. When you pray for someone and they’re not healed most people’s faith diminishes and that’s not what happens to our Thomas what happens to you?
Art: Yeah I like to say every time I minister again I’m stepping into a new level of faith.
Sid: How do you step into a new level of faith when you pray for someone and they die of cancer? Give me a break? (Laughing)
Art: It’s very practical because you know how James says “Abraham was justified by faith.” But it was really laying Isaac on the altar that act of faith it was putting it’s faith into action that brought him…that made him righteous. And so I realized that just the simple act of ministering to the sick is faith in itself. And so here I am it takes a little measure of trust to say “Be healed in Jesus name.” But if it doesn’t happen it takes more faith for me to now ignore that it didn’t happen to speak to it again as though I’d just seen a 1000 miracles. And I just continue to do it every time I speak to it again I know that I’m stepping into a new level of faith because I’m ignoring one more time that it didn’t work.
Sid: You know what some people’s mind just went tilt on what you just said would you say it again? I mean this is so good (Laughing)
Art: Every time I step into…everything I speak into a condition again I am having to ignore one more time when it didn’t work. And that’s a higher stack of things to ignore than it was the last time which means I am acting on more faith. The very act of me saying “Be healed in Jesus name” is an act of faith and the more I do it the greater my actual faith becomes until that mustard seed pops up and moves a mountain.
Sid: Okay give me some practical advice. I have prayed over the years, many different times, that my eyes be healed and I not have to wear glasses and I have an idea I am not alone. But if you watch me on television I’m wearing glasses; what advice would you give me?
Art: Number 1 be healed in Jesus name.
Sid: (Laughing) come on now give me more.
Art: Look around see if there’s any change.
Sid: Oh you’re really going for it aren’t you “Do I see any change?”
Art: Look around.
Sid: I see perfect with my glasses, oh my Producers saying take my glasses off.
Art: Exactly.
Sid: Well I took my glasses off but my whole headphone came off too okay.
Art: No problem (Laughing).
Sid: Now now you have to pray for my headphone, no I’m teasing.
Art: (Laughing)
Sid: Now this is a good test I’m looking at my notes and I can’t read them and I need something more. And by the way am I discouraging you when I’m saying this, what’s going on inside of you? Am I discouraging you because I’m kidding you and I can’t see anything?
Art: (Laughing) see I’ve learned that if you were healed instantly the glory is not mine I have to take that to Jesus and say “Here this belongs to You.” If you’re not healed instantly then the burdens not mine and I say “Here this belongs to You.” So there is a sort of disconnect from the glory or the burden either way I can continue to just trust Jesus and walk in faith and it doesn’t change what’s true. Right? And I also tell people “You’re doing everything right like Jesus raised the dead a dead person doesn’t even have to figure out how to receive (Chuckling) you know just be dead. So you’re doing everything right instead what I do I say alright we as a body of Christ are growing into this thing. We want to see 100% results like they had Acts chapter 5 when they were all meeting together in Solomon’s colony and then a few verses later it says “Every sick and injured person that came to them was healed. So we as the body of Christ it is for us to carry together and we want to see results and we contend for it. So practical advice I’d say alright I just aimed for it you know if Jesus…
Sid: Now is it my lack of faith that I wear glasses?
Art: No.
Sid: No.
Art: I never put it on the person because when the epileptic boy wasn’t healed Jesus didn’t pin it on the epileptic boy, he didn’t pin it on that boy’s father who obvious said…
Sid: So who’s lack of faith is it if it’s not mine?
Art: (Laughing) Matthew 17 the disciples asked Him “Why couldn’t we do what You can do?” And Jesus turned to them and said “Because you have so little faith.” And so for me as a minister, and mind you this is for all the body of Christ to carry he didn’t single out one of the disciples He said to them collectively He said “You have so little faith.” But if I never asked the personal question “Lord why couldn’t I do it?” And I never let Him shape me and correct me about 1/3 of the time I get an answer you know. And if that doesn’t happen then we collectively never will grow into it. And so one of the reasons I was able to write a book and make a movie and have all of this revelation on healing is because every time I try and it doesn’t work I go to Jesus and say “Why couldn’t I do what You could have done?” And again I get a response about a ¼ to a 1/3…
Sid: And you don’t take condemnation either I see.
Art: Now what so ever like I said the glories not mine and the burdens not mine cast your burdens on Jesus. If I walked around depressed because people didn’t get healed I be…
Sid: Is this God’s will that everyone be healed do you really believe that?
Art: I sincerely do you know Jesus paid the same price for salvation, for forgiveness as He paid for healing. And there’s multiple verses where forgiveness are mentioned together James 5, Isaiah 53, Psalm 103. And even the paralytic lowered through the roof “Your sins are forgiven and then to prove that I have the authority to forgive sins get up take your mat.” Jesus put the authority for forgiveness and for healing in the same context otherwise that wouldn’t have been proof. So there is never going to be…I’ve found that I can answer most of my questions about God’s will to heal if I just replace the word healing with forgiveness. So if there ever come a time that a sinner comes to Jesus and says “Lord forgive me.” And He said “I’m sorry I’m building character in you with this sin and once that’s complete I’ll forgive you.” You know it’s nonsense when we think of it that way Jesus decided to forgive 2000 years ago and He also decided to heal 2000 years ago. 1st John 2:2 said “He died for not only our sins but also for the sins of the whole world.” And that doesn’t mean that everyone’s saved but everyone is paid for and that’s the same thing for healing. Everyone is paid for His blood has power today there’s no reason for me to think that His blood is less affective and that God would contradict Himself He made a very powerful decision when He send His Son to the cross.
Sid: Okay explain to our listeners right now the DVD and the book, explain what they are.
Art: Yeah the DVD we wanted to make a movie my friend James was a film music score major at a local university and for his final project he wanted a movie that his class would have to watch in order for him to get a grade. Me being an evangelist I’m all over that let’s do it. And what started out as this little tiny class project to help a friend suddenly exploded into having these interviews with people that were phenomenal interviews and we had more material than we knew what to do with and cranked it down to as tight of a movie that we took the best of the best of the best footage the best advice. And we showed miracles happening we had lots of discussion about that, and then at the back of the movie about the last half hour all of these 30 or so people we interviewed we asked them for their most practical advice about healing ministry. Then we pulled all of that together and presented a training at the end of this film. So it’s not a documentary in the true sense it’s actually an activation type movie.
Sid: Well it’s not just activation you pray for the sick at the end of the movie and are you getting many people that say that they’re getting healed from watching the movie?
Art: Yeah like I said we’ve had lots of results with people getting healed while watching the film so it’s been amazing.
Sid: What about churches that are pretty much burned out they don’t see anything they’re Spirit filled, they believe in healing but they don’t see much going on has this reactivated them?
Art: Absolutely in fact there is a church in Montana that wrote to me and the pastor said “You know we have people in our church who used to minister healing all of the time but the truth is healing ministry there tends to be an emotional weight just as I explained how I’m not carrying the burden I recognize that the burden is real.” You know when someone close to you dies of cancer and you know that somehow the healing power of Jesus is bottled up inside of you and you couldn’t get it out to them that’s heavy for you to carry it hurts your heart and people got discouraged and they gave up. And this pastor said “After watching your movie, after going through the study they have jumped back into this with more enthusiasm than they’ve ever had. So it’s pretty powerful seeing that happen.
Sid: ….Can you picture what would happen Art if entire churches got activated with this?
Art: Oh yeah I can not only picture it I’ve seen if happen.
Sid: When we come back I’m going to Art pray for you if that’s okay.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth