Sid: I want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah, but have you noticed that there are these little foxes that are stopping you from being red hot for the Messiah. There’s the little foxes that are stopping you from having peace; there’s the little foxes that are causing you to suffer and to have pain. How would you like to say pain is in evitable but suffering is optional? Now that’s a pretty profound statement. Let me read this to you from a book on “How to Stop the Pain” by Dr. James B. Richards and I’m reading from page 11. It says “Most people have never acquired the tools necessary for resolving person hurt. As a result hurt grows into bitterness, sorry, depression and eventual loss of physical health. Our future becomes controlled by a past that has locked us into an unending cycle of more hurt and more disappointment. And then there are those that would say ‘Well, wait a second I’m a new creation I don’t have to deal with the past I’m giving it no place I’m going on with my life and I don’t understand what you’re talking about Sid.’” So don’t say that to me say that to my guest Dr. James Richards we finally caught up with him in Colorado Springs, Colorado. James what would you say to someone that’s says “I’m a new creation I don’t have to deal with anything in the past.”
Jim: You know Sid I’d say that “Yeah, you’re a new creation and if the past isn’t affecting your life that’s a wonderful thing.”
Sid: I don’t believe that’s possible.
Jim: I don’t think it’s possible.
Sid: Okay I just want to make sure.
Jim: (Laughing) Yeah the truth is today we are all the sum total of our last experiences up to this point. And there is no way that the past cannot factor into how we’re facing life, viewing life, and how we’re dealing with life’s problems.
Sid: Now I have to tell you something I live with a wife that’s been involved in a number of the areas that we’ll be discussing and so by osmosis I picked up a lot of this understanding. But even though I have I’ve been reading pages of your book I’ve been convicted and I’ve been… but not convicted in a bad way in a good way.
Jim: Right.
Sid: I’ve been saying to myself “You dummy look what you’ve done now you can be free.”
Jim: Yep.
Sid: I didn’t use that word but I really have but you know what I’m saying?
Jim: Oh yeah, and that’s an incredible thing about it I’m not wanting to get people stuck in the past, I’m not wanting to get them enslaved to the past. I want to show them some simple Biblical steps that they can take that will once and for all break the power of the past over their lives. And really move unfettered into the destiny that Jesus has called them to.
Sid: Let me read a little bit more about your book. “How do we get rid of pain from the past and the present? We forgive those that have hurt us and still feel we are in pain from offenses. What is keeping us from getting out of the boxes we seem to be in? Why are things not changing in our lives? What are some emotional areas that are doorways to sickness? How do we stop judging ourselves and others? How does judging torment us?” And I want to start right out with this whole deal of Judgment because to be quite candid with you I’ve been kind of confused on this? I’m a prophetic type of person; I call sin sin black is black, white is white I’m that type of personality but it’s a fine line. And you say you know you say not just you Jesus says, “Do not judge or you too will be judged.” What is the fine line between judgment and speaking truth as a teacher?
Jim: You know that’s a great question and I don’t think we’ll ever really resolve well. You know in judgment, judgment is not… you haven’t judged because you have an opinion about something. I remember years ago I preached at a church and I had a particular insight that I thought that the Lord had shown me and I wrote the pastor back and I encouraged him, I said “You know I really believe that this would be something that would greatly benefit your ministry.” And he wrote me this horrible letter and said “How dare you judge my ministry” and he felt like I had an observation that I had in fact passed the judgment. And that of course was the last thing on my mind it wasn’t my intention and over the years I started saying “What is judgment?” Judgment belongs to God we know that it is something that it’s not our place to judge. But you know actually ever since man fell in the Garden of Eden and became god of our own worlds we claim, we started claiming the right to judge. It came inherently with the sin nature.
Sid: Well you know you did a spin in your book that I hadn’t seen before, about in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of good and evil. Explain that.
Jim: As far as what happened next?
Sid: No, as far as that opened them up to in effect be their own god and do judging.
Jim: Yeah, because that was the basic temptation. See whoever has the right of judgment and judges what is good and evil is the person that has set themselves up as god of their own world. And that was what Adam was looking for; he was looking for a way to function in this world independent of God being the judge and had the right to say what was good and evil. So the minute he became a sinner and took control of this world around him on his own terms, he began judging it. The conscience mind up until that point was properly was only used for observation now became a mind that looked at things and passed judgments about them.
Sid: But how do you observe and not judge?
Jim: It’s easier than you think we just need to do it.
Sid: (Laughing) okay.
Jim: As a matter of fact when people first read this book “How to Stop the Pain” they spend about 2 weeks almost tormented because they start realizing how much we actually judge everything around us.
Sid: Do you know that was what happened to me. I’m going to tell you though it’s not torment it’s wonderful because I’m looking at it as this is so liberating!
Jim: Oh yeah. See judgment is not when you have an opinion or observation. But judgment is in fact when you assume to know why someone does what they do it’s just that simple.
Sid: So why do we… why do we as humans do this I mean I do this without thinking.
Jim: I think it’s because it’s a place where we haven’t renewed our mind. It’s a place where we’re still functioning under the principles of this world’s system you know. We were born sinners we spent our entire life judging assuming to know why people did things…
Sid: That’s the big word that I see the why is what makes the difference between observation and judgment.
Jim: Exactly. You know a person… and see here’s the incredible thing and this will help people understand this this is where you get into the pain part of it. Anything that we experience , anything that would bring pain into our lives but it can only bring pain to the degree that we give it significance. Now what gives something significance is when we assume to know why it was done. What was the motive? I sat in counseling this morning a wonderful woman her and her husband are torn apart they’re separated on the verge of divorce and basically all that it is which is 90% of all of the counseling that I ever do in a marriage situation all it is, is they’re judging each other. Give you a good example, let’s say you know you were talking about how your personality is. You’re probably a person that kind of speaks straightforward right?
Sid: Correct.
Jim: So you know a straightforward person their intention and their motive in speaking straightforward really is to be kind. You know, “I don’t want to take up your time, I don’t want to invade your space.” So if you were to call me up on the phone and you wanted to borrow my lawn mower or something you know you’d call me and say “Hey Jim, Sid here I’d like to borrow your lawnmower.” Okay, you can borrow my lawn mower. Now if I were an indirect communicator when I hang up the phone you see I’m going to assume, since I’m god of my own world, I’m going to assume that everybody in the world does things for the same reasons that I do them.
Sid: And you know what? That’s my big mistake. I put people in my box and they’re not in my box. (Laughing)
Jim: And so now an indirect communicator only communicates directly if their angry.
Sid: Hm.
Jim: So I have to assume since I’m an indirect communicator you spoke directly to me. So I’m going to say this is why he did this. He’s angry. So now I’m upset with you. Now I feel like okay he’s angry with me and so you know I…
Sid: And I don’t even have a clue that you’re upset with me.
Jim: You thought that you were being polite.
Sid: I would be shocked if I knew that you were upset with me.
Jim: But you see the direct communicator says “I’m calling this person, I’m invading their privacy I need to get right to the point and if they want to talk about anything after I tell them what I want then we’ll talk.” Now if the coin were flipped around and an indirect communicator calls you and says “Hey listen how you been doing? You’re like well, I’m doing okay. Well, how’s the wife and kids? Well, their doing fine.” And you know the back of your mind you’re going what do you want.
Sid: Hm.
Jim: Because a direct communicator kind of gets to the bottom line.
Sid: Right.
Jim: So finally he gets around to it really you know I’d like to borrow your lawn mower okay. You hang up the phone and you go “You know something the only reason that I would be indirect and just kind of you know ask all of these questions would be about trying to manipulate, why didn’t he just call me and tell me what he wanted?” Now he was doing that to be friendly and kind.
Sid: And so I’m judging him now.
Jim: Yeah, because you would think the only time that I’m indirect is when maybe I’m trying to avoid the point. You know with one of my children I have 5 daughters 10 grandkids. And actually there were two of my daughters that I tell you for years I had a horrible relationship with them. I just could not understand why they pushed my button so badly. And when I realized it was judgment, they were incredibly indirect communicators and you know they would come up and…
Sid: Who was judging who, you were judging them or vice a versa?
Jim: I was judging them. So you know as a child they would come up to me and you know “I love you daddy” da da da…
Sid: Oh, hold that thought I know you’ll be back tomorrow…
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: What we call “church” is so far removed from what God intended that what we call church needs to the breath of God. Just in Ezekiel “Son of Man can these dry bones live?” And God said “I’m going to breathe on them. And when the Jewish people are grafted back into the Body of Messiah become that One New Man it’ll bring life from the dead to what we call the “church.” And when the life from the dead comes to what we call “The Church” because I rather call the “assembly” because every time I hear the word church I think of a building. And the true definition of the word is a gather, an assembling of believers; when that life from the dead comes to that Assembly then that life will go to the four corners of the earth. And let everyone, everywhere hear the good news. I have on the telephone temporarily in Richmond, Virginia. His home is Israel, Stan Goodenough. Stan was a correspondent for many years from South Africa, a newspaper reporter. And Stan what in the world would cause you to immigrate to Israel, raise a family, five children, have your children in school in a war zone. How could you do something so outrageous?
Stan: Yeah Sid, it’s a good question I guess. I would be asked question of that kind by many Israeli’s especially when the situation in Israel has resembled a full scale warzone, and certainly a place that was preparing for a full scale war. For example when Saddam Hussein was threatening last year to send missiles over to Israel again. My answer to ….
Sid: By the way you must be as an Israeli you must be very, very grateful to the United States for taking that threat away.
Stan: Well I’m not an Israeli I’m a Gentile I’m only in Israel on a journalist visa so I’m not an Israeli.
Sid: How long have you been there?
Stan: I’ve been there 15 years.
Sid: I’m calling you an Israeli; I have the right I’m sorry I’m making you an honorary Israeli but go ahead. I’m an Israeli so go ahead. (Laughing)
Stan: Well, the reality is that I was called there very clearly by the Lord out of the newsroom which I was working in South Africa in the last years of the apartheid there was coming to an end. The Lord very clearly directed me to go to Israel and to report on events taking place there, specifically for the believing world, for the church or the believing world. To offer an alternative to the normally biased quite often unfair and sometimes just downright untrue reporting that the secular world media puts out from Jerusalem, from Israel.
Sid: Yes, but with 5 children, and I know as a fact that there have been horrific things that have happened even in your children’s school. Just quickly tell me one thing that happened to some of the people there.
Stan: Well this year both there were 2 bus bombings in Jerusalem in which two members of the school mates of the 2 oldest school mate were killed and others were wounded. And so yes there are those realities.
Sid: Do you feel a supernatural protection from God for you and your family?
Stan: I do believe Sid that if we are in God’s will for our lives then it doesn’t matter where we are we’re quite safe. Because no hair on our body can be touched or harmed without the Lord’s permission. And so we don’t live in any kind of fear; we live in perfect peace because we know that we’re where He wants us to be.
Sid: Now you weren’t always this way; you were raised as a believer, however, very quickly you wanted the things of the world. But there was a particular meeting in which the Old Testament scriptures were opened up to you and I might add previous to that you had a love for Jewish music, for anything Jewish. But you were backslidden, worldly and tell me about that that you heard the scriptures revealed to you for the first time from the Old Covenant.
Stan: I was still a teenager I was in the military; I went into uniform in South Africa at the age of 16 and I was in until my 19th year. And during that period of time as you say I was not walking with the Lord; I had chosen to go on my own quest for my own faith. And it took awhile for me to return to God but thankfully His graciousness was extended to me and I was able to return and He welcomed me back. But the actually event that you are referring to happened during a church service. When I accompanied my mother to hear a speaker from Jerusalem and he was a believer. And he began to expound on God’s ongoing purposes for Israel. And because of my upbringing and my knowledge of the Bible in my head a whole lot of… things just started to fall into place. And the Old Testament which I basically now refuse to call it the Old Testament anymore for reasons that I could explain later. The Hebrew Scriptures suddenly became alive. They took on a dimension that took on reality because they were not just the history of Israel past. They were also the history of the prophesied future of Israel today and Israel to come.
Sid: You know I am amazed the number of people that call themselves born again Christians that do not know the most exciting predictions in the Bible that have all come 100% true. And talk about what’s about ready to happen next involving the Jew in Israel; I’m amazed.
Stan: It’s actually shocking; Sid it’s an indictment of all of us as Christians that we’re… often I’ll be speaking to a congregation and I will be tempted to ask the number of people who have read the Bible from cover to cover in that congregation. And almost always as I do ask the question it’s in a small minority; a few people read. We don’t know the Bible Sid. And what we do know we tend to focus on New Testament and there are even new believer’s that call themselves New Testament Believer’s; the New Testament Church…
Sid: It’s a good thing the first church were not New Testament Believer’s or they would have had no Bible.
Stan: Exactly. (Laughing)
Sid: Because for those that don’t understand the New Testament they didn’t have a nice book that we have. They were circular letters written over years. And so when the New Testament refers to the scriptures it’s referring to what… I’ll go along with what you said Stan what is called the Old Covenant.
Stan: Yeah. I don’t know if you have ever realized where that title for the Hebrew Scriptures came from Sid I did some research into that. And it comes out of a Priest, a Christian Priest a Bishop. He started in Sardis, Italy, his name escapes me right now it may come back to me, but he wrote one of the first sermon’s blaming the Jews; accusing the Jews of democide and it took… his sermon blaming the Jews for killing God underwrote a lot of the anti-Semitism from the so called Christian world that followed down the centuries. And it was the same man that decided to relegate the Hebrew Scriptures to Old Testament.
Sid: So the natural implication is who wants the Old when you can have the New.
Stan: Exactly and we send that message not only to our new converts to Christianity to new Christians. But we also send that message to Israel to the unbelieving Jew. We tell you the Jew that your Bible is Old ours is New. And so yours is kind of there if we want it; ours is really where it’s at. And that is really so wrong and of course the Bible does not begin in Matthew it begins in Genesis.
Sid: Well let me tell you something I’ve been doing lately Stan. The word Torah technically is the first 5 Books of the Jewish scriptures.
Stan: Hmm, hm.
Sid: However I found that Rabbis refer to the entire Tenach, or the entire Old Covenant many times as Torah. So I call it the Torah and the Brit ha-chadashah, the New Covenant. And I call the whole Old Testament the Torah.
Stan: Hmm.
Sid: And I like it that way, I’ll go along with the Rabbis on that particular point. But again how do your children feel about living in a land where they see such violence?
Stan: Well first of all you know we don’t cut our children off from reality on one hand. On the other hand we don’t let them sit in front of the news. They don’t watch news; they’re all under the age of 10 so they don’t really need to be watching political news right now. They know what happens when members of their school have been lost. Memorial days, they know what happens, they go through the Israeli calendar and the Jewish calendar and that’s how they live their lives. So they have Holocaust Memorial Day. And they hear about the murder of the 6 million Jews of Europe; Adolph Hitler. They learn about the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin. They learn about the peace process and they learn according to what’s relative to their age and I suppose what they can deal with relatively. And then of course they’re open to asking questions.
Sid: Stan we’re out of time; we’ll pick up right here. I’m glad you chose to eavesdrop in our conversation between myself and Stand Goodenough.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: I literally; I am so filled with Spirit of God, I am so excited about the Living God; I want to Pat Robertson wrote a book, I want to do the same thing. The title of his book was “Shout it From the Rooftop.” Well, that’s what he did with television and we’re doing it with television, and we’re doing it with radio. And my guest this week I want to shout what she has to say from the house tops. Her name is Dr. Catherine Mallard; I’m speaking to her at her office at Northern Virginia. Where she is founder of Christian Heritage Ministries and the Christian Heritage Tours. And her book that we’re featuring this week is a book that every American must read. If you were home schooling a young person, if you have a grandchild, if you have a child or grandchild in public school they are not going to get the truth. And every day that goes by they’re going to get less of the truth. And Catherine proves that since the 1930’s there’s been a revisionist history, it’s really so godly it’s almost unbelievable to me that something that was so godly could have it so denuded. How things could be so twisted around; on yesterday’s interview I was talking about what is commonly known what is the separation of church and state which is not in our history; it’s the actual opposite of what our founding father’s wanted. And you get this all in this book “The Rewriting of America’s History.” But something was very intriguing to me Catherine is you do tours and you went out to Philadelphia, Christ Church, explain to us again what Christ Episcopal Church is and what you saw in their vaults and why that’s in their vaults and not available and why even the tours today are revisionist as opposed to what’s even in their vaults, please explain.
Catherine: Yes, when the 3 stain-glass windows, the first prayer in Congress, the Continental Congress of 1774 are showing all of the 36 greatest men of the Congress on their knees in prayer. With scripture reading read out by the Pastor of that church “Jacob Du Shay.” Jacob Du Shay they all invited him to commence in prayer and scriptures reading in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That stain-glass window including the second one which is “Christ Church Patriots 1790” as showing the founding fathers including Benjamin in their family pew including open Bibles. And the 3rd one which was is entitled “The Reorganization of the American Church 1785” with “Bishop White pouring over the scriptures,” he’s Washington’s Pastor. And then “Delegates from 7 States around reorganizing the Church all taken down in September of 1986. And the huge palladium windows stain-glass windows with this powerful story of Christianity and the Constitution as woven in Christianity and the founding fathers and it’s woven. And they were put in permanent storage across the road in the neighborhood house in storage crates. So I miraculously got permission to go to the vault and go into the vault and the rector who is the only one with the key. And I got permission because the President of my seminary I attended where I got my Master’s degree in Old and New Testament one of my professors wrote and kindly said “I was a distinguished scholar” and I only did for 2 days, one day and then I came back and spend another day. Go into the vault and research the evidence that’s all been put in a vault there and it’s under lock there. And the Rectors normally has the keys so it was tremendously miraculous that I knew that I had such a wealth of evidence everywhere collecting dust by the way and molding on shelves. And he opened the door of a little rickety desk with lots of dust on it and opened up the door; it was sort of broken down and pulled out an original letter written by George Washington to his Pastor Bishop White. And so that is so valuable that when he took me to a conference room adjoining the vault I had a whole stack of documentation of what I could get. And I knew that I’d have to spend at least work a month or more there to write it all down in pencil, so I took whatever I could into the conference room to copy down. And of course with that letter he looked over my shoulders, I wrote everything down. And it came out in my 3rd book “The Children’s Companion Guide to America’s History.” Which has been used by the probably about 100 of 1000’s of students all over the nation from 6 to 9 years old that have really appreciated America’s original history on it. Any way I knew for 2 days came back and I knew that I couldn’t possibly, I would just scratch the surface. I couldn’t possibly write everything down in 2 days and so I gave it to the Lord in prayer and I just took the whole stack of this documentation and went across from the conference room and I was in the neighborhood house to a xerox machine which was between between the rector and his secretary and God’s angels around me. And I had no doubt in my mind when I’m on His ministry, when I’m on His anointed ministry and I was just able to xerox; I kept xeroxing for hours, I came up with 100’s of xerox’s on evidence that the founders true Christianity. Such as some of the sermons handwritten by Bishop White. Bishop White was the 2nd Chaplain to Congress and they take you to the throne of grace. And founders including Benjamin Franklin sat under these Biblical sermon’s Sunday, after Sunday, after Sunday. In fact I’d like to add here that Benjamin Franklin, because I did xerox a 1920 guide book with all of the evidence of Benjamin’s Franklin’s true Christianity in it. Everything that Benjamin Franklin founded and some of which are still standing today the Philosophical Society; the first hospital in America, the Philadelphia Hospital re-founded in 1755. The first Library Company which the Library of Congress used when it was in Philadelphia before they founded the current Library of Congress in 1800 in our nation’s Capitol.
Sid: Catherine, out of curiosity since we’re talking about Franklin, we’re talking about Philadelphia, what ever happened to the Liberty Bell?
Catherine: Yes, just let me conclude with that thought and I’ll go right into the Liberty Bell if I may. Everything that Benjamin Franklin founded his President’s were pastors from Christ Church. Including the seminary in Philadelphia, which became the University of Pennsylvania he founded.
Sid: Hm.
Catherine: Board of Trustees were from the Elders of the church. And his own will and testament were his executive from that church. Including John Jay who was the first Chief Justice from the US Supreme Court and a tremendous Christian. So there’s a great deal of evidence on both of the Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson from originals. And they certainly were not dais and they were pro-Christian. And they attended the same Christianity, Protestant Christian Churches, sat under the same gospel preaching gospel sermon’s that the other founders did. The Liberty Bell, it’s a very sad commentary on the Liberty Bell. It was moved out of Independence Hall at Midnight on the 1st of January 1976; at the very minute and hour at the beginning of the Bi-Centennial of the Declaration of Independence on a flatbed truck was a tremendous amount of opposition. They had it on television, they of course they usually do in the United States have people voice their opinions, Everybody was against it. And then they just brushed them right under the carpet and do exactly what they want. I mean the Department of Interior Park Service that has jurisdiction over the most historic; it’s been in our nation since 1951 and that is historic Philadelphia. They took it over from the city of Philadelphia in 1951, they disbanded at that time the national museum which is in Independence Hall and they moved the originals to different buildings. So I did my research there for quite a number of months after initially finding all of these heirlooms of America’s original America’s Christian and Heritage and History in the rare book collection of the Library of Congress. The Liberty Bell was moved across the road to a what I call looks like a railroad shack, it’s a squat little square building, very modern and disassociated from the great event that it rang for. The great Christian events at the founding of our nation. Including of the signing of the Declaration of Independence; the signing of…
Sid: Do you think this is just coincidental or do you think that this was intentional to separate to the two?
Catherine: Oh, intentional because I took down some of the rangers talks and we’ve heard them since. And the material that they’re given to study since it was put in this little squat modern shack. I call it a shack really. It’s disgraceful; people have seen it and find it disgraceful and it’s not the colonial splender and beauty of Independence Hall or the Christian events it was associated with Independence Hall. And they moved it across from it; and the ranger material that they were given to study and to give out to millions of Americans who came to see it. And I took it down for the book and you could find it in that chapter on the Liberty Bell, Well, they stated that the Liberty bell was being thrown out for scrape metal and it had no significance; it rang for George the Third’s Birthday, it rang for any old town fire, but that it only became important after civil war when the abolitionist picked it up and it became a great symbol of the abolitionists and the great freedom. And that’s totally false, I even knew that overseas and God had His hand on me and brought me over here before I was saved and I was already formed. But one knows overseas. People know that the Liberty Bell is the greatest symbol of America’s Independence. And it has a scripture on it “Proclaim Liberty to all of the inhabitants throughout the land” from Leviticus 25:10.” When it rang in independence in bell-free of Independence Hall in 1970 and ’76 it was prophetic. People all over the nation great historians and scholars and Christians all over the nation just knew that it was God God’s hand that had that scripture put on 50 years prior.
Sid: So Catherine, do you think things will change, or do you think things will get progressively worse? What’s your spin?
Catherine: Well, we’re praying for great last revival. And we believe it’s on the horizon and that God will raise up and bring to me and this ministry a second Moses; that’s what it’ll take to pull a mould off of people; they’ve been dazed. They have a mould put on their minds.
Sid: Do you know what I can picture though? I can picture things getting so tough in the United States of America that the President of the United States will get down on his knees before Congress and all of the Congressmen, all of the Senators and on Television throughout the world they’re going to seeking God again for His mercy. And at that time there will be a change.
Catherine: Well, we need another revival and I have research recently for our Newsletter Christian Heritage News some of the National days of humiliation, fasting and prayer by John Adams, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln and many other presidents. And they’re just filled with scripture and reliance on…
Sid: Whoop, we’re out of time again.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: We are coming into the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history and if you are crippled spiritually because of a broken heart, and keep in mind that’s why Jesus came. My guest John McTernan is going to teach on the full ministry of Jesus. That including healing broken hearts. People that sit under his teaching, the gifts of the spirit that were clogged just as an artery is clogged. Someone needs a bypass surgery in the natural, the spiritual arteries that are clogged they’re going to get set free totally. And the gifts of the spirit that God intended for you to operate in for your whole life they’re going to be released like a flood. John explain what is a broken heart and how does Jesus heal it?
John: Sid, if you don’t mind I’d like to just explain the ministry of the Lord first and then we’ll go right into that.
Sid: Go for it.
John: Yeah Luke 4:18 and the Lord’s quoting actually from Isaiah 61 in which we’re going to go to shortly. But Luke 4:18 says “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because He’s anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor.” So in our modern, if you want to use the word Christianity, we kind of stop with that as being ministry of the Lord. In many circles the salvation message is preached and that’s wonderful that is the foundation of the ministry of Jesus Christ, He came to seek and to save that which is lost. But if you notice on Luke 4:18 there is a semicolon which connects the next thought with the previous one. “He sent me to heal the broken hearted.” So not only did He come to give us forgiveness of sin and eternal life but that on earth we don’t have to live with a broken heart. And I may add to this that the broken heart is spiritual. There is no way on earth that a person’s broken heart can be healed accept by Jesus Christ. There isn’t enough Valium, Prozac, 5 steps to this, 7 steps to that, psychology, none of that and go into the spiritual realm and heal the brokenhearted, it can only be done by Him. And once the heart is healed He came to preach deliverance to the captives. So that are bound in sin once the heart is healed, that can be dealt with. Recovering the sight of the blind, God opens up our eyes with great understanding and to set at liberty them that are bruised.
Sid: And actually what is coming to me as you are speaking is, that is the natural spiritual order to become whole so that God can use you completely.
John: The thing is for some reason the modern church is going around the brokenhearted and trying to deliver people that happen to sin. And the problem is that the hearts broken and they’re not getting free.
Sid: Okay, John tell me those steps as outlined in scripture. What’s the first, second, third?
John: First it’s the gospel of salvation, forgiveness of sin and being restored to God the Father. Then He came to heal the brokenhearted. Well, that goes with being saved from sin, that’s what we’ve lost today. This has radically changed my preaching of the gospel. I would preach a message of salvation and I would end it right there; now at the same time with salvation I show “Look, He came to heal your broken heart also.” I connect them when I preach.
Sid: But then, after your broken heart is healed it’s then the deliverance. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the deliverance is easy.
John: Exactly, that’s see what I do Sid is when I pray with people we go after he broken heart first. When the broken heart’s healed, if they’re bound in rejection, or they’re bound in terror. Once the heart is healed then we go into that area to heal it because a lot of that is because of a broken heart. But once the hearts healed that stuff has no root; the tentacles now can be cut and the person can be free.
Sid: You know this makes so much sense because I know people that go for deliverance to one person and it seems like they’re free; and then they go back to another person because the thing came back and then they get free. And it’s like they spend their whole life on a rollercoaster because they never had their broken heart healed.
John: I have prayed for untold numbers of people now. Well the ones that I deal with one and one not a general prayer over an audience. And I’ve asked people “You’ve been prayed for many times” “Yes.” And “you’ve gone to a physiologist,” “Yes.” And has anyone ever prayed for your heart to be healed? Not once Sid, I can say this before the Lord “Not one ever told me that they had been prayed over to have their broken heart healed.” And that was the problem.
Sid: You know I think that this is such a break-though. But guess what, it the Messiah is returning as soon as we think; if end time events are speeding up as soon as the newspapers are showing it’s happening right now then of course God wants His church healed.
John: He wants a bride without spot or wrinkle.
Sid: Okay, what medicine does Jesus prescribe for healing a broken heart?
John: Well, that broken heart Sid is when you look at scriptures both in the Hebrew and the Greek it means shattered and splintered. It’s not a little tear, and it’s a violent act. Now a violent act may not have caused the broken heart. But inside when a person’s heart is broken it’s like shredded. It would be like a broken leg Sid that was splintered. Not a clean break but a splintered break and that’s what happens to the heart. And in Isaiah…
Sid: So I can just picture a spiritual heart inside of someone and they’re cracks all over that heart from living a life in this fallen world.
John: Yes, and it’s not only cracked but it’s splintered. A fractured leg…
Sid: That’s even worse, sure.
John: You got bones going in every angle and little pieces.
Sid: Now in the natural that sounds horrific, but in the spiritual it’s just as horrific.
John: Exactly, and that’s why I use that example of a fractured leg. It’s not a clean break, it’s ugly and sometimes the fracture could actually come out through the skin. That’s the way the human heart looks like when it’s broken. Now for years Sid I would read Isaiah 61 when I read it, and it says what Luke 4:18 says. But it says regarding the broken hearted it says “To bind up the brokenhearted.” Now I never studied that, I never looked at it until the Lord called me into this ministry. But bind, what does bind have to do with a broken heart? And then when I saw what a broken heart was in scriptures; what happens is the way Jesus the great physician He uses the Holy Spirit to take all of those shattered pieces and put it back together. Just like a physical doctor would take a fractured leg and put it back together and maybe even sew screws in it to hold it together. And then they put a cast on it to bind it so it can heal. Well that’s exactly what Dr. Jesus does with the broken heart. He said “He came to bind up.” And that word bind is cords, and so what happens is with our spiritual heart is the Holy Spirit puts these cords around and seals it in His love and never to be broken again. That’s how it’s healed Sid, that’s why a broken heart can never be… it can only be healed by Jesus Christ spiritually.
Sid: And then explain to me the connections between a broken heart and bondages of all kinds.
John: Well, it seems like with broken heart; that in that broken heart sits fear, sits anger, sits rejection, malice, unforgiveness… And things that people are trying to get out of there; they’re following the Lord and they’re trying to get out of their life and they’re hocked into this heart. And what happens is the heart continually gets broken. I notice that in people’s lives of broken hearts things come in their lives to break it and then after that something else to re-break it and it keeps this anger alive in them and these fears alive. So once that heart is healed, once the great Physician binds up that heart heals it and seals it in love this anger, rejection, fears it’s got no place to go Sid.
Sid: You know what I happen to believe there’s… it talks in the last days there’s going to be problems in families. The children will reject the parents, the parents will reject the children. I believe that all of that comes from a broken heart.
John: And you’re right because what’s happening is this tremendous divorce rate. And I’m not condemning anyone; I’m just saying what happens as a result of it the kids grow up with broken hearts and then they marry. And they’re marrying with broken hearts and the spouses are looking for how to fill that broken heart. Which no one can do but the Lord and that kind of leads to divorce so it perpetuates itself. The broken heart leads to more broken hearts and more broken heart.
Sid: And you know the scripture that cinches it if you will from Malachi “In the last days God will turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the hearts of the father to the children.” That’s what you’re talking about, that’s your ministry. It’s an end-time ministry…
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: So in 1979, Rodney is desperate. He’s a broken man. His brother who he loved dies from leukemia, suddenly. He’s crying out to God for all, I mean, he didn’t care who was around or anything. There were people that did not understand being filled with the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit. Well Rodney had had all of that, but he knew there was something more. There was something greater. The Bible refers to it as “the fire of God.” He cries out and the fire comes upon him. How long did this fire stay on you?
RODNEY: Well when the fire came on me, I didn’t know what to do. I realized we’re going to have to have a glorified body when we get to Heaven. They’re going to have to carry us everywhere. But the day will come when this corruptible will put on incorruptible. Immortality will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. But the presence of God was so overwhelming. So all of the people around me, I just started laying hands on them because I thought the only way I can get rid of this is to give it away. But it didn’t lift off of me. It got on them and the fire got on all of them. They were filled with the Spirit, people falling under the power.
SID: So what happened to these people that didn’t know diddly about the power of God, these young kids, what happened?
RODNEY: Well there was a bunch of girls from a high school for girls out of the town of Greenstown, and it was an Anglican school. And of course they all got hit by the power. One of the ladies, of course she’s now married to a pastor friend of mine, years later we were talking and I spoke about the night the fire came on me. She said, “You were the guy.” She said, “Do you know what happened?” She said, “A revival broke out in that school. It went for three years, and many people were called into the ministry.” Because that’s what happens when the fire comes on people.
SID: Rodney, get ready. It’s coming again. And I believe that fire is going to start right now. I believe that fire is going to start with you. So Rodney, being raised in South Africa, had something from God. He knew he had to come to America. You told me you used to line up your teddy bears. Tell me about that.
RODNEY: Yeah. I used to line up my bears. I was only five. My little brother was three. I’d line up my bears and I’d preach to them and then I would hand the service over to my little brother, and I’d climb out the window to go to America to go preach. And then I would come back ten minutes later to tell my brother and the bears all the great things the Lord had done. I mean, I’d lay hands on the bears, all the bears fell under the power. And what’s so interesting is that we don’t have bears in southern Africa. America is the land of the bear. So it’s like the Lord was getting me ready.
SID: Okay. So he comes to America. That’s a story in itself. But then in 1989, he goes to Clifton Park, upstate New York. What happened?
RODNEY: All right. I get invited to do a week-long meeting in Clifton Park. The pastor said, “What are you going to teach on the morning time?” I said I felt led to teach on the subject of the anointing, how the Lord touched me. So on the Monday morning, the church ran about 250 people. So you know, Sunday morning looks great. Monday morning about 60 people showed up, which doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s [because] we never ever had a Monday morning meeting before. Tuesday morning about 100 people came and I told my wife, I said, something is happening. There’s a hunger that’s taking place. But right in the middle of the service as I was sharing out of the Book of Luke, chapter 4, verse 14, Jesus returned the spirit. He went out into Galilee round about and he taught in synagogues. And in verse 18, where he said, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. He has anointed me to preach the gospel, heal the broken hearted, to proclaim and recover the sight of the blind, [unintelligible] forgive them Lord.” As I was sharing that, suddenly, it was like the very atmosphere of the room changed. The air parted and became, the only way I can describe it, it became holy. And I could feel the air moving in front of me. And while I’m talking, the power of God started hitting people in the congregation. It was like an unseen hand and people just started falling out of their seat. And some were weeping, some were filled with great joy, others shaking under the power. And of course, the noise is getting louder and I managed to speak above the noise of the people. And that’s what happened in ’89, and has continued unto this day.
SID: You told me that you never had that happen. People are usually respectful when someone is teaching or preaching. What did you tell God?
RODNEY: Well I mean, I had seen it happen often [unintelligible]. But I said to the Lord, “Lord, you’re ruining my meeting.” But I had been crying for God to come and move me. You remember, ’87 and ’88 were terrible years in America. Ministries collapsed. There was an apathy in the church and we had been crying out for a revival. So the Lord said, “Well I’m moving. You asked me to come and move.” And He said, “Let me touch my people.” He said, “If you’re ashamed of what I’m doing I’ll take it away from and give it to another.” Because I understood there would come persecution and criticism. People don’t understand the ways of the Spirit of God. But I said, “Lord, don’t take it away. Just come. Let your fire fall and whatever happens, happens.” People are going to say what they want to say, but thank God for the power of the Holy Spirit, and we will never compromise the anointing of power of the Holy Spirit and not to be accepted anyway, not for many, not for fortune, I will never comprise the touch of God.
SID: You know what? Many of you are so empty you don’t even feel anymore. That is not normal. That is not, in other words, you’re so used to religious Christianity that you don’t know what normal is if it just rears up in your face. But I’m going to tell you something. Many of you for the first time in your life are going to be normal because, I’m going, when we come back, I’m going to ask Rodney to teach you how to be normal, normal as defined by the Bible. Be right back.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth