Sid: I have one of the generals in the faith in the studio Dr. Norvel Hayes 86 years young. Norvel you told me before we started this broadcast that most Christians do not understand faith. I know that God taught you faith; you’ve been in the word and I see your Bible over here and it looks like you have been through that so many times but tell me teach me something that God taught you on faith.
Norvel: Okay, one key thing God taught me on faith is to have faith in Him to worship Him. Have faith in Him to worship Him and praise Him. And so that’s what… that’s what we really need; all of us need that real bad to worship God and praise Him. Have faith; you can have faith; faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And this is so important this one verse. It’s a bless if they get it.
Sid: Okay, what is the verse, where is it?
Norvel: Hebrews 11:6.
Sid: Hebrews 11:6; okay.
Norvel: “But without faith it is impossible to please Him.” The most important thing in the world to any of us Sid is to please the Lord; to please Him. “But without faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him. When you worship God you’re diligently seeking God and you’re going to find God too. Those that diligently seek God shall find God. Sid any person in the world; any person in the world they can have just as much of God as they want; it all depends on how long they are going to seek Him. He says diligently seek God and you shall find Him. You have to seek Him.
Sid: Let me ask you this I notice in many times you will command people to be healed but over and over for hours sometimes. Tell me about one person you prayed for for hours and they got healed.
Norvel: Okay, there is a college on Look Out Mountain in Chattanooga. They were having a commencement day with all the parents come in and hundreds of people there. And some boys there at college this other boy was from New Jersey going to college there. They they backed him out and they said “You’re a coward if you don’t take your clothes off and in the nude streak across the campus and run as fast as you can; cross the campus in the nude so he didn’t want to do it but they kept calling him yellow. Finally he just stripped all his clothes off; boy from New Jersey streaked across the campus in front of all the parents in the nude and when he got to the other side of the field he had no mind.
Sid: Hm.
Norvel: God took his hand off of him. See you can get so filthy with your sins God will take it…if you want to do something the devil wants you to do and He’ll take his hand off of you and let you do it and the devil will drive you crazy. That time that college boy got across that field that campus he didn’t have no mind.
Sid: So in affect if you go deep enough into sin the hedge of protection around you is removed and the devil has free access. So okay when you prayed for him and he lost his mind tell me what happened.
Norvel: Alright I was in a shopping center in Cleveland, Tennessee sitting in my car one afternoon. God moved in my car and told me to go to Chattanooga in a certain place. So I drove my car and went to Chattanooga in a certain place and he didn’t tell me what for. When I got there they had this boy, and I didn’t know he had done this until this time; they had this boy who had lost his mind; he was padded cell case and he’s upstairs. And so the college psychiatrist brought him down to that particular building God told me to go there cause God knew what I’d do when I went there and I saw him; I didn’t even know he was in the world. And the psychiatrist said “Mr. Hayes I saw you on TV one time; I saw you on TV one time. I know you know how to pray and make devils leave people he says I didn’t even believe this kind of stuff a year ago but I saw you on TV and I saw you and Lester Sumerall where you cast out devils on TV. This young man has got a mental case he’s been like this for four days, he doesn’t even know his own name he’s upstairs.” He said “Will you pray for him?” I said “Sure. He said me and my sister wants to go with you. I said “No, you can’t go.” He said “What?” I said, “No you can’t go with me upstairs.” He said “Why not?” I said “Because you don’t know what you’re doing; I need all the faith I can get”
Sid: And there’s an example in the Bible that Jesus only wanted those that believed with Him when He prayed for the little girl.”
Norvel: I knew it had to be done supernaturally and I knew how to get that boy’s mind back for him but it may take me all night. So I started praying for that boy like late in the afternoon and he finally he finally got his mind back; got to be normal 7:00 the next morning I prayed all night.
Sid: Now why was it necessary for you to pray all night, why couldn’t you just pray one prayer and that would have been it?
Norvel: Well, most of the time Sid most people don’t get much from short prayers. If you show God that you’ll diligently seek Him for victory you can have it.
Sid: Alright. I want to have victory right now there are people listening right now that have cancer; these were the two words I heard. There is someone with a migraine headache and there’s lots of other diseases represented. I would like you to pray a prayer of faith for them and I believe God is going to move in an extraordinary fashion.
Norvel: Can I give a word of testimony? Okay, I’m driving for the Full Gospel Businessman’s Convention’s over and I’m driving back to Cleveland with my car. I stopped on the way between Nashville and Chattanooga and Cleveland. I stopped at a Stuckey’s station they have good candy there and they sell gas and all kinds of nuts stuff at Stuckey’s store. So I stopped and I’m looking in the counter here and I heard somebody going “Aaaah, ohoooooooooah. And I looked over the top of the counter and there was woman that looked like she was about 30 years old and there going oooohhhhhhhhhhah so I walked walked around where she was at slowly and I said “Lady are you hurting?” And she “Oh yeah I have migraine headaches I have them all the time sometimes; this has been on me about 70 hours and don’t leave, don’t leave.” I said “I don’t put up with migraine headaches.” She said “You don’t” and I said “No.” I said and I thought I’d walk up to her and stop and said “He’s watching us.” And I said “Is this your wife?” And he said “Yeah, she’s hurting real bad” and he said “are you kidding; she been hurting for 3 days she has migraine headaches sometimes; she’s had it for 3 days.” And so I said “Well, I’ll go back there and there and they’ll leave her if you want me to.” And I said “Well, let’s get out of this store I don’t want the manager of this store to get scared, let’s go outside and I’ll pray for her.” So I went outside and I prayed for her and I said “Now I’m going to break the power of that thing over you.” So I took authority over her you foul devil; you spirit of migraine headaches I command you to turn this woman lose I command you to come out of her in Jesus.” And of course I was a lot louder.
Sid: I’m sure.
Norvel: I said “Come out of her and leave her alone and I resist you in Jesus Name you devil.” And I see I wasn’t getting no place and so finally just took her head in my hand and I pulled her face up close to mine and I said “In Jesus Name I command you turn this woman lose, I command you to come out of her, come out of her in Jesus Name obey me come out of her I said you are not are not going to keep her in prison, come out of her in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.” I did that 15 – 20 times and all of a sudden she just…
Sid: She just fell over.
Norvel: Yes, she fell on the floor; so she started crying; she cried probably for about 10 minutes. When she got up I told her husband “She’s free.” She gets up and I said are they gone? She said “They’re gone my head is not hurting,” there is two of them they went out that window there.
Sid: Two demons.
Norvel: Yes, they went out that window and she said “I’m free.” I asked him I said “Where do you live at?” He said “I live in Cleveland, Tennessee.” I said “Cleveland, Tennessee I said “That’s where I live.” I said “Why did you let her go through this?” He said “I don’t know how to do it.” I said “Well, for now one you know how to do it.”
Sid: Norvel, we’re out of time; I want you to pray right now the prayer of faith for people that are sick right now.
Norvel: Thank you Lord Heavenly Father I pray that your teachings will go to the people that are listening to this broadcast and they’re sick and they need help pain, I break the power of pain over their bodies in Jesus Name I command that pain to leave them and come out of them and leave them totally. Cancer I curse your roots and I command you to leave that body in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Roots of the cancer I command all the roots to die and every cancer cell leave their body in Jesus Name and thank you Lord for Your healing power going through their body right now; Your divine healing power going through their body and removing as your divine healing power flows through their body remove all symptoms of cancer, remove all symptoms of migraine headaches in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it Lord, I believe it to be so, and I want to thank You Lord for doing it for the people that are listening to this broadcast in Jesus Name right now Lord.
Sid: Amen.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: I’ve started doing something, this week as you know Monday is the Biblical festival of Shavuot, otherwise known as Pentecost. It’s a Jewish festival from the Jewish scriptures, but when you understand it, and what it represents. It represents so clearly the next, the greatest, and the last move of God’s Spirit, the emergence of the One New Man.
So I wanted to tell you something that you must be doing at this moment because 2 is an important number for Shavuot, or Pentecost. We’re between 2 moves of God’s Spirit, so what should you be doing. I tell you get ready for the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history. The way you get ready is you get closer to God. Don’t you say “Things are dead at my church” maybe they are dead, but that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about, stop being critical of your church, stop being critical of your pastor. This is your time to get close to God because we’re about ready to have the greatest move of God’s Spirit, and I you part of I’m going to be part of it. I feel like Joshua he says “As for me and my house we’re serving the Lord.” Well you’re part of my Mishpochah, you’re part of my family I want you serving the Lord. This is what I’ve been doing this is what God’s told me to do and I believe God’s telling me to tell you to do this also. I get up an hour earlier every morning and I spend time with God in a way that I never did in my entire life because I’m the type of person that I’m a doer, I’m not a sit quiet type of guy. This is what I’ve been doing, at this time I pray just a couple of minutes, but then I’m still for about an hour. I don’t pray in tongues at that time, I don’t pray in English at that time, I’m just still. This is the way I pray I say “Holy Spirit I’m so glad that you’re with me, I’m so glad that you’re my comforter, I’m so glad you’re telling me things that are going to happen in the future, I’m so glad that you’re revealing scripture to me, I’m so glad that Jesus said we should are so grateful that He died and rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father because you would be with us and you would lead us and guide us. What are we going to do today I’m excited about what you’re going to do today. I’m reminded of Corrie Ten Boom and she said “I look at myself as a glove” and she held up a plastic glove there was nothing in it no hand or anything. It looked like it was just a glove, then all of a sudden she put her hand in and said “This is the Holy Spirit inside of the glove,” and she began moving her fingers. Holy Spirit I want to be like that glove I want you to be so filled within me fill me Holy Spirit that my thoughts will be God’s thoughts. Then I begin to take my various senses and I say “In the name of Jesus my eyes I want to be able to see what is going on in heaven on earth” because that is what Jesus told us. Jesus said “Pray thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.” So if I can see what’s going on in heaven I can understand what God’s doing on earth and I can cooperate with this. I said “Take my ears I want to hear what’s going on in heaven on earth. Take my brain I want to think here on earth the way you think in heaven. Take my nose I want to smell what’s going on in heaven on earth. I would much rather smell what’s going on in heaven than what’s going on in earth. Take my mouth let me speak what you’re doing in heaven let me speak it out on earth. Take my heart you know Father God I need a new heart Your word talks about you’re going to give us this new heart and I want a heart that can operate in the ‘Shema’ that’s Deuteronomy 6:4 a heart that loves you with all of my heart, with all of my soul, with all of my mind, with all of my strength, and heart that loves my neighbor as myself. I can’t drum that up only you can change my heart almighty God. Give me a heart with compassion, compassion for the hurting and the broken and the wounded. Not a performance game, not a religion game, but reality and truth I want reality you want reality how can two get together, walk together, unless they be agreed. We’re agreed God, we’re going to walk together this day.”
Then I’m reminded of what David said. David said “I see the Lord before me at my right hand,” then there was a New Covenant understanding it was a prophecy of Jesus at the right hand of God, but I believe it also was literal. I believe King David literally could see the Lord right before him at his right hand. Lord I want to see you before me at my right hand I know you’re praying for me. As a matter of fact the best way I know to be changed… this is the way I pray I really do! This is the emus the best way I can be changed is to come into Your presence, to come into Father God’s presence and I want to go to the Holy of Holies right now. Holy Spirit take me to the Holy of Holies. I can see myself transported into the Holy of Holies. I begin to worship God, but I’m not even worshipping Him I’m letting my heart touch Him. I’m being still I’m letting my heart soar into the heavenly. I’m with Jesus and I’m with the Father and God is changing my heart. As His life comes into me I’m being healed I’m being healed in my spirit, and in my soul, and my body. As His life comes into you you’re being healed and you’re being equipped for end time ministry. God wants you to hear His voice, He wants to know what’s going on in heaven so you can proclaim it on earth. Yes we have the word, but you know what? It is so wonderful to have the word that say’s “My sheep hear My voice” and this next move of God’s Spirit is going to be so different from anything we’re used to that most people are going to prefer the dried up variety of Christianity rather than the great outpouring of God’s Spirit. But as for me and my house we are going to be involved in the great outpouring of God’s Spirit. I pray that the church I’m part of, and I pray that the church you’re part of will be involved in the outpouring of God’s Spirit, but man likes to hold onto tradition. Well tradition and a dime won’t get you a cup of coffee anywhere that I know of. I want reality, I want God what about you? I’ll tell you something else without holiness you won’t see God. Without operating in love loving your neighbor as yourself and loving God with all your heart, spirit, soul, and body you’re not going to be used in these last days.
God is telling me to watch out of my criticism. I am not called to be a critic, I am called to be a blesser, I’m called to bless everyone and anything and I’m being changed. The question is, are you being changed, are you sitting in the seat of criticism, or are you sitting in the seat of intimacy with God where you can’t wait to tell people about God? You can’t wait to see someone walking with a limp in the shopping mall. You say you’ve run up and you’ve prayed for that person and nothing has happened. Well big deal! First of all you don’t know nothing has happened, you don’t know what happened, you don’t know what happened the next day, you don’t know what because you put anointed hands on that person and the changes that went on in their body. Your job is to be obedient, and I’m going to tell you something if God can trust you with little things He can trust you with big things. We’re coming into the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit. I’m saying you’re going to be part of it.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: We’re in the last of days, we’re in a time in which Paul was just dreaming would happen. The fullness of the Gentile Age when the spiritual scales are coming off of the eyes of Jewish people. And I’ve got a job, and my job is to say I want you to get a crown; not just an ordinary crown, not just a worldly crown, a soul winner crown. You know I interviewed a man who went to Heaven. He said, “He went into a room and it was a big library; and in this library there were different books and one book listed the individual believer’s name and all of the souls that came to the Lord through them. Let’s be candid, you will not take anything with you to heaven except souls. Now my understanding, my spin is that the Jew according to God is called to be a light to the Goyim, to the Gentiles. The job of the Jew is to tell the Gentile about God; to tell the Gentiles that God is not angry with us and that He sent His Son Yeshua to set us free. Now on the other side the job of the Gentile believer after they get saved; and it says that the Gentile owes debt of gratitude to the Jewish people. Why, because the Jewish people were faithful and salvation, and salvation comes from the Jew. So the Gentile now in Roman’s 11:11 it says now get this “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy. Now that you have that straight I want to introduce to you one of my best friends in the Lord Jonathan Bernis. I’m speaking to him at his home in Phoenix, Arizona; perhaps on television with the Jewish Voice or perhaps you’ve heard him speak. But on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that he obeyed a call from God. He went to the former Soviet Union and history testifies that over a quarter of a million Jewish people heard a clear presentation of the gospel. More than half of them responded by making professions of faith. Now I believe that that’s a unique situation in the former Soviet Union and it’s still going on today and it is wonderful; the most open Jewish people on the face of this earth are Soviet Jews. But Jonathan just as the Holy Spirit is showing you mentioned on yesterday’s broadcast the Holy Spirit is showing me that there is going to be a major major outpouring of Spanish Jews coming to the Lord. And what I see as an indication of it is how many Hispanics are embracing Jewish Roots and Jewish music. But my burden right now is…because I think that things are going to get ferociously bad in the United States. We have a little time left before things get bad; and my burden is Jews in the United States of America. And there are so many misconceptions by true Bible believers, forget the phoney baloney, by true Bible believers that I want my friend Jonathan to tell me some of the things he’s gleaned over the years. Some of the misconceptions and let’s set the record straight Jonathan.
Jonathan: Sid, I would love to; let me first begin by saying that the Bible is very clear in promising a worldwide restoration of the Jewish people. You see in 70 AD we were scattered to the four corners of the earth. God said that He would scatter us outside the land. And He did a fantastic job Sid; we’ve been to China together, we saw Jewish people there, been all over the world and I’ll tell you the Jewish people are scattered everywhere. And God is restoring them, and there is already Sid a revival that’s taking place in Latin, America. Many were scattered there from Spain during…after the Spanish inquisition and their known as Marranos’. They changed their identity just for preservation and they changed their names and so on and are being restored, God is at work in restoring the Jewish people and fulfilling His word promised in Roman’s 9, 10 and 11 and throughout the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and so on. And Sid we’re seeing it happen before our very eyes. You mentioned that I personally seen 250,000 Jewish people hear the gospel and about half of them respond to the altar calls and it’s been an amazing experience. Sid, I don’t know if I’ve told you this but I have visited heaven.
Sid: No, you did not.
Jonathan: I did, I want to tell you where heaven is. Heaven for me is being in front of 1000’s of Jewish people sharing how God changed my life and seeing them respond to the gospel.
Sid: I got to ask this question; I’ve got to ask you this question because I said this…
Jonathan: It’s heaven on earth and I’ve been there.
Sid: I’ve got to ask you this question you know there is this big controversy on the rapture. We’re getting out before the tribulation, in the middle, in the after. And this is what I’ve said and I honestly believe it. I have an idea that you’re going to say the same thing. But I’ve said the same thing I don’t want to leave here; I think that we’re on the cutting edge of the biggest revival that the war has ever seen. I don’t want to get out of here. I want to stay here until the very last…I want to be like a captain of a ship. I want to stay here until that very last Jewish person get’s saved so that they can get just zapped with the Holy Spirit and do the job we Jews were created to do. And that is to be a light to the nations, to the Gentles; now what ever your view on the rapture is do you feel like me?
Jonathan: I feel absolutely I feel like you; I want to be around to reach as many of our Jewish people as possible while it’s still day. Sid here’s something that’s very important whether there’s a pre-tribulation, mid or post tribulation rapture the issue is that God is pouring out His Spirit now and we need to be about the work of the Lord now while there is still daylight now! Let me go back to something you said before because it’s so important. And that is misconceptions that Christians have about Jewish people and Jewish evangelism. You know we had a terrible misconception in the Messianic movement; or I certainly did until a few years ago. And that was that Christians in my perception going back now 15 – 20 years. I felt had no interest in the Jewish people; it just seemed to be indifference which is changing now. And so I became convinced that it was the Messianic Jewish movements responsibility to bring the gospel to Jewish people. In other words to church had failed in that mission, Christians were disinterested and so it was the job of Jewish believers like you ad I to do that. Now while we have a calling to our people, Roman’s 9 is very clear that, Roman’s 9, 10 and 11 that it’s the Christian’s the goyim’s responsibility to bring the gospel to the Jewish people. Paul begins in Roman’s 9 by sharing that he has this unceasing burden and anguish in his own heart for his own people; his people of Israel. Now what you need to understand here is one he is the apostle to the Gentles and yet he’s sharing with the Gentiles Christians his heart for his own people. He always went to the synagogue first. He wrote that the gospel was to the Jew first and also the Gentile in Roman’s 1.
Sid: Hey, I’ll go one step further, Jonathan I’ll tell you that many Gentile Christians have missed their blessing. And have said “Well, it’s up to the Jewish believer to reach the Jewish people. But you and I have been at meetings where we’ve said “If you’re Jewish stand up, a Jewish believer in Jesus stand up where there was a thousand people.” And so the Jewish believers would stand up. And then we would say “Now if a Gentile Christian led you to the Lord raise your hand and it was better than 98%.
Jonathan: Absolutely, most Jewish people have come to faith through a Gentile Christian friend of acquaintance. Now Sid, why is Paul writing to the Gentiles and sharing that he has this unceasing burden for his own people. That he’s give up his very salvation, not his life but his eternal life; which is unimaginable, I can’t even comprehend it. But he’s saying that he’d give up his eternal life for some of them. Sid I’m convinced that he shares it with the Gentile church so that they will grasp this burden and share it with him for the Jewish people. And so I believe that the provoking the Jew to jealousy in Roman’s 11:11 is to bring them to faith in the Messiah; not just to provoke them as we’ve experienced for almost 2000 years. Now there’s misconceptions that Christians have that keep them from that clear Biblical responsibility. One is which is totally wrong and I have to laugh every time that I think of this. Many Christians believe that Jewish people know the scriptures, the Old Testament scriptures better than they do and so if they try to share they’re going to be embarrassed.
Sid: Listen Jonathan, as you know I come from an Orthodox, a traditional background. And when I came to the Lord a friend of mine that graduated from American University came up to me and said “Sid I’ve been praying for a Jewish believer to teach me the scriptures.” You know what you and I knew you could put it in a thimble. (Laughing)
Jonathan: (Laughing) Exactly, you know I had prepared for my Bar Mitzvah I could read Hebrew but I didn’t know what I was reading. And so people thought that I was this expert and was totally false. And so that’s one misconception; Jewish people do not know their own scriptures. Ninety percent of the American Jewish community is secularized.
Sid: Listen if you say have you read Isaiah 53 they don’t even know who Isaiah is.
Jonathan: They don’t even know who Isaiah is; they don’t even know what the Old Testament is. Or Tenach or Torah or whatever they know the word.
Sid: How about Yeshua, how man Jewish people even know who we’re talking about.
Jonathan: Exactly, so that’s one misconception. Another is…
Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow broadcast. Mishpochah this in not a misconception this is God’s time to reach Jewish people with the gospel. It is not an accident that you are listening to this broadcast. It is not an accident that God has had a Jewish person cross your path and you are the best person to reach this Jewish person with the gospel.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: I’ve got a couple I hope you’ve been listening all this week to Isaiah Reed, I have his wife Carol Reed on the telephone. Carol had been a prostitute for many years, and she was living the fast life, and she liked the money. One day Carol gets a phone call from Isaiah, the father of her child, and he says “I want to marry you. I found religion.” What did you think Carol?
Carol: Well first of all when he called me and he told me that… I felt as though it were a game because he had tempted me for so many years and I thought it was just a trick for him to get me back in to that lifestyle again which I was still in; my demons had gotten really big and so I didn’t really at first want to receive it, but there was something inside of me because I always loved him and wanted to believe this was true. So when he called me I immediately said “Yes I’ll marry you” because I really was at the end of hope for myself.
Sid: So you got on a plane with your… how old was your son at the time?
Carol: My oldest boy was 4 year old, and then I had another child 1½ who was part Jewish, and his father is Jewish. We moved to Hawaii, we flew to Hawaii and I really went there just to give my children away. I was going to give my oldest son to Isaiah, come back and find my second son’s father and kill myself.
Sid: Why did you want to kill yourself?
Carol: I was very suicidal because I was living with a lie that I wasn’t worth anything, and suffered from low self-esteem, and I was drug addict…
Sid: Let’s go back. I understand you were raised in a nice middle class family in L.A.
Carol: Yes I was. I was raised in a wonderful middle class family. My mother and father both worked good jobs; we were born and raised as Catholics. Went to Catholic school had good rules and regulations…
Sid: In your wildest imagine did you think you would spend all those years as a prostitute?
Carol: No it was really funny that it ended up that way because I had good moral backgrounds, but there was just something in me from a little child…
Sid: Wait, wait, I remember in reading your background that when you were just a young girl your stepfather tried to rape you and you ran away from home. I guess that’s when things really got out of hand.
Carol: Yes that was the fork in the road. What really set that off is that when the incident happened I wasn’t believed by my mom. That just kind of destroyed me because I figured as a parent you know when your child is lying. Sit across a courtroom from your mom and this person doesn’t believe you it was very devastating for me. So what t the devil did inside of me Sid “Well if they think you’re a prostitute then you might as well be one.” So he planted that seed within myself. So I believed what I heard “I wasn’t worth anything so I might as well do it.”
Sid: Well wait a second. Your successful as a prostitute, you have a pimp that likes to beat you. I mean one day he beat you for over 8 hours. Why did you stay with him?
Carol: Well this was the original guy that I had originally got with because the laws of Hollywood in the streets is you know “Girls do have pimps” and that was a security blanket for me. I thought as though I really didn’t have a choice, but after this gentleman beat me I got on my own, and went into the entertainment field. I was caught between 2 opinions one part of me said “I could be this great entertainer,” and another part of me said “I was never worth anything” so the more I got caught up into the lifestyle the more I did drugs, the more I drank. Next thing you know I didn’t know who I was, and time passed by.
Sid: Now you were living for a little while with someone most people have heard of NFL Hall of Famer Jim Brown.
Carol: Yes in 1984 I was Jim Brown’s girlfriend for several months, then we actually came up on a case where we were both arrested for raping a school teacher. Johnnie Cochran, the famous Johnnie Cochran who just went to be with the Lord. He was our lawyer, it was all over the news and everything, and we were found not guilty of that charge. I was like caught between 2 opinions part of me wanted to be in entertainment and the door was open for me, but another part of me was searching for love and so I was caught in 2 different areas. I was still a prostitute; I was still a drug addict and so I was like in a soap opera in my own little world.
Sid: Then you met Isaiah and you didn’t realize that he wanted you to be a prostitute. You thought he was interested in you, is that right?
Carol: Well when I first met him I figured he was one of 2 things because I had been exposed to the lifestyle. I figured he was either a dope dealer or a pimp. You have to understand something about that spirit and that nature you are drawn to your kind. So even though I didn’t want to believe it I knew there was a chance that was what he did. So he kind of swayed me in his direction because I suffered from low self-esteem, and you have to understand something about low self-esteem. When you don’t believe in yourself you need the validation of someone else to make you feel important. So when he took interest in me because I suffered from low self-esteem so bad to me that was a good sign. So I was really much lured into his direction, you know, even more so.
Sid: Now you 2 had a child together; would you say you were in love with him?
Carol: Oh yes from the very minute I met him.
Sid: You were in love with him and how many other women were in his group of prostitutes?
Carol: Well he had 17 other girls.
Sid: I understand he kind of favored you, and one of the women one day stabbed you in the eye?
Carol: After I had my oldest son, my son Deket, I worked the streets the whole time that I was pregnant, and these other girls were very upset because they had been with him for years and none of them had ever had a baby. For me to turn around and have a baby meant that he must of loved me. So while I was…
Sid: It was Isaiah’s baby?
Carol: Yes it was. One of the first girls kicked me in my stomach then 7 days after I had my baby who was a crack baby, he weighed 3 pounds 3¾. Seven days after I had him I got into an altercation with one of the girls and when it was over she had stabbed me in my left eye.
Sid: Not only that when you were pregnant with your child Isaiah still had you out in the streets working?
Carol: Yes I worked the streets of Hawaii until I was 7½ months pregnant smoking crack, smoking marijuana, drinking, and having sex. Actually when I had my child I weighed 103 pounds at 7½ months pregnant.
Sid: Hmm. There was an incident where there was a young drug dealer that was interested in you and was stalking you, and your father actually shot him. What affect did this have on you? He killed him.
Carol: That was horrible. After I left Isaiah I moved to California and I was trying to get my life back together took my son with me. Because I was so driven to the demons I got into another relationship that was just as worse as the relationship that I was in with Isaiah, but when I decided to get out of this relationship this young man stalked me and my father shot him 5 times in front of my face with a 9mm. It devastated me even to the point where I got more tormented by the demons, I smoked more drugs, I couldn’t be alone I was always in the bed with someone different. It came to the point I became very suicidal, I didn’t feel I deserved…
Sid: Now when Isaiah called you to marry you I bet you were shocked.
Carol: Actually I was in another relationship and the night he called me I was swearing at the Lord because I was saying “How could You allow me to stay in this life when You know my heart?” I could remember hearing the Lord tell me “You can’t leave here until you do what I say. So you might as well get comfortable.” The minute he said that the phone rang it was 2:30 in the morning, I’ll never forget it, and that was Isaiah on the phone. He said “I got one minute and I got one question. Will you marry me?”
Sid: Hold that thought, we’ll pick this up on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: I’ve got another Jewish person on the telephone; I’m speaking to her at her home in Nashville, Tennessee Jennifer Goetz. We learned on Monday and Tuesday about her husband but Jennifer comes from a conservative Jewish background in New York. Your dad was an actor; your mom an opera singer. And you began singing in clubs in New York Jennifer and you met a guy who then became involved in the music group of Bob Dylan. That must have been exciting times for you and you traveled with him.
Jennifer: Oh yeah, yeah actually it was my boyfriend who he was a boyfriend of mine and he was in a band with my cousin and my brother and Tony Bennett’s sons. I was in a club in New York City and on the stage were these musicians and I was with a friend of mine. And this friend says “See those fellows on stage?” And I said, “Yes.” He said “They’re going to be Bob Dylan’s backup band on some concerts that he’s going to be doing.” And I said “If I bring David down will you introduce him because I think that he’d be perfect for those guys.” And the next night I brought David down and he kind of auditioned for them and he was invited to go on something that was called “The Rolling Thunder Review” back in 1975. And it was Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell and Joan Baez and oh my goodness Alan Ginsberg the poet; Roger McGowan who is now a believer and has been for many years.
Sid: But at the time this was all going on being a believer was probably pretty far from your thoughts; but it must have been a pretty exciting life.
Jennifer: It was very exciting and when it was over however, I feel into what I would say a depression because it was everything I had everything that the world said would make you happy. I had a good career, I had a catering business, I had a boyfriend, I traveled with the people who were in a sense my idols. Joni Mitchell, I was in love with her music, and when it was all over I still had that place inside of me that was not satisfied was not fulfilled was longing for something. And I didn’t know it was God; but yes it was exciting and it was also very sad too on the other hand.
Sid: It’s kind of hard for someone on the outside looking in here you are with these famous famous people jet setting if you will with everything Hollywood says is so satisfying and yet you felt so dissatisfied.
Jennifer: Empty yeah, yeah. After being, I went… in 1975 we toured the United States and in 1976 we toured the United States again. Then in 1978 I was invited to go to Europe for 6 weeks with Bob Dylan and my boyfriend and all these people. Not the same group of musicians but another tour. Actually I contracted something called Bell’s Palsy.
Sid: Oh, that’s a tough disease.
Jennifer: Yeah, well I woke up; actually I was catering a concert one night and when I went to bed and I swished the water in my mouth around after I brushed my teeth it came shooting out one side of my mouth. I lived alone and I thought “Uh oh what is going on?” And the next morning I woke up and half of my face was paralyzed. So we were catering another concert at the Universal Amphitheater in California and it was a Bob Dylan concert. My boyfriend has asked me if I wanted to go to Europe but I said not unless I get better. Bob took me into his trailer and he had a woman a physic healer woman; and I allowed to mention names?
Sid: Well, better not.
Jennifer: Well anyway she prayed for me and she had me envision colors and I closed my eyes and it was rather silly to me. But then when she was finished Bob’s girlfriend grabbed my hand and prayed over me in the Name of Jesus. And afterwards I was just kind of stunned. And the next day I started getting better; the Bells Palsy started going away and I did I went to Europe. When that was all over because that was truly a trip of a lifetime. You know we had own private train that took us from one country to the other and just stayed in the best hotels. But when it was over I was… we came back and I started getting hives. And I said to David, I said “Something’s after me and I have got to find out what it is. And I went to a physic nutritionist and she told me eat green beans and to drink orange juice and baked potatoes. And yes the hives went away. And in my search I did this thing called insight training; it’s a New Age thing. And it cost $250 and when it’s all over you put your $50 down to do the advanced training which is $650 and of course you put your money down because you’re very excited. But as I thought about it and I thought “This can’t be right the truth has to be available to everybody. And what about people who can’t afford that money.” And then I thought about people who are in wheelchairs or people who have lives and this where the whole exciting touring thing got me thinking. People who had what looked like who had rather mundane lives people who were housekeepers or you know washed dishes or they had to have the same reason to live then these people who are so talented and rich and famous. There had to be… I had this sense that there had to be something available to everybody that made life worth living. So I was in New York with my brother; well visiting my family from California and I was driving cross country with my brother and I dropped him off in Austin, Texas to visit my cousin. I went on to Fort Worth, Texas and I went to visit a friend of mine. And while I was there I had horrible dreams and she told me the next morning she said “Ask Jesus to take away your dreams.” And so that night I had the same horrible dream, I dreamed I was being murdered and I woke up barely enough to say “Jesus please take away these dreams.” And I slept soundly, and before I left her house she gave me C.S. Lewis’ book “Mere Christianity.” And I started reading it and I got saved reading it. And he made a great statement he said “Jesus was either who He claimed to be which was God walking this earth in the flesh, or He was a ravaging lunatic a crazy as a poached egg. But there’s no place to call Him a good man or a prophet or a good teacher. Because if He wasn’t God then He was a meg lo maniac.” And as a Jewish person growing up I was taught to believe that Jesus was actually a good man kind of like Moses. And C.S. Lewis just blew that out of the water and the scales just fell off my eyes; I was stunned. I just knew that I knew and I just devoured that book. And when I got back to California my friend took me to the Vineyard Christian Fellowship. And as I’m leaving who’s there in the back of the church but Bob Dylan and his girlfriend Mary Alice. And I said to her because when I had gotten back to California I had called her and I said “You didn’t return my phone calls Mary Alice. She said “I didn’t want you to drag me down” because she had rededicated her life to the Lord in that couple of weeks that I was in New York City. And she said to me “You’ve got to go to discipleship school.” And I said “Mary-Alice I need to find a job.”
Sid: That must have been an exciting experience being discipled with people like people like Bob Dylan in your class. But I want to go to something far more exciting a selection from your husband’s CD and it’s called “Sanctuary.” And there really is a place that you can find rest, and peace in the arms of the Messiah.
Marty Goetz singing an excerpt called Sanctuary
Sid: That was Marty Goetz singing “Sanctuary.” You know when I think about Marty Jennifer I think about how David would play the harp before King Saul and that was the only thing that would bring peace to King Saul. Do you get reports of people having supernatural peace when…
Jennifer: All the time oh, all the time people tell us that it brought them through such a very hard time in their lives. It brings tremendous comfort to people; I’ve had people who’ve lost children who have told me that it was the only thing that they could listen to night and day.
Sid: Oh, we’re out of time.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth